Head Porting Question
 

I have a new 1g head that just came out of the machine shop. I am building this head up for my 95 with a 6 bolt swap. I plan to put in SS valves, and titanium set of valves and retainers. I am also going to do a bigger cam setup as well but dont know which ones yet.

I was wondering if it is worth it to have the head ported and polished and if so how much? What gains are expected to gain with it ported out? What are the prices that people charge to do this and who is better of all of the shops around the metro area. If you do porting or can help me out or give me a quote please PM me or post it up here.

Thanks!

Re: Head Porting Question
 

I'm not offering that at this time, I'm sure the other shops will post up if they do. But in general, our heads are pretty good right off the assembly line. A mild clean up of the ports to remove casting boogers is all 97% of the DSM crowd will ever need.

Re: Head Porting Question
 

Ok so just clean it up and match the runners and gaskets then? What cams should I run with a 6 bolt swap, wisecos, eagles, and a 20g?

Re: Head Porting Question
 

PM sent on head porting...

As far as cams HKS are a great choice and pretty much a straight drop in and go. Crower and comp are other options that might save you a little cash.

Chris

Re: Head Porting Question
 

I wouldn't touch the head unless you know exactly what you are doing.
What are you looking for out of the car? A 20g is a good 2.0 street turbo and will deliver some good mid-range. Something in the HKS 272/272 combo, a FP 2, Crower 64413's etc are all medium-large grinds that should suit you well on a street car.
Pm me if you need pricing on any of the mentioned items.

Re: Head Porting Question
 

I have found that the comp cams in my interest are the 272 style and run like 370 or so brand new. Is this a good choice and what are the power increases in these? Also will the crowler springs and titanium retainers be fine? I heard they are good to like 10,000 safe. I have some SS valves and revised lifters with new guides. Anything else ill need here?

Re: Head Porting Question
 

I would buy ither the FP or HKS cams, I am just not a fan of comp for the dsm market. The items listed above look like a good combo, as long as the machine shop does good head work you will be fine.

~John

Re: Head Porting Question
 

No you will be fine. I would also tend to agree with John that the "old school hks 272" and the new fp cams are great cams for the 4g63 head.

Re: Head Porting Question
 

Ok. Is there something in particular that is bad or wrong with the comp because I have had several others suggest these for the price that they are?

Re: Head Porting Question
 

FP cams are Comp Cams.

Re: Head Porting Question
 

You can clean up the casting flaws, but don't gasket match the runners. I wouldn't take the normal Crower springs/retainers to anywhere near 10,000 RPMs. The Crower springs aren't a huge upgrade from stock, but they are cheap. Good for someone looking to rev to 8500 with not too extreme of a came. If you want to rev higher than that or even run a cam with a crazy profile design then you will have to some stronger springs.

Re: Head Porting Question
 

I don't mean to steal your thread, but my question is regarding what's being talked about so I'll just throw it in here. I have the crower springs in my head. Shane when you say you should get something better then crowers to run a cam with a crazy profile, how extreme are we talking? Right now I plan to rev up to 8500, and I'm running 272's. I was contemplating moving up to 280's, or FP3's. What would you say is the limit of these springs?

Re: Head Porting Question
 

People have run 8500rpms on 272s with stock valvesprings since the dawn of time.

264s, 272s, and 280s all have the same 10.3mm lift and the same ramp rates, so if whatever spring works with the 272 will work with all of them given the same rpm limits.

Re: Head Porting Question
 

Crower springs and retainers should hold 280s and the revlimit your looking at. The problem with the crower springs is seat pressure, with the more crazy lifts and ramp rates of the big big cams plus high revs you need 280+lbs of spring pressure(pending cam choice), I think the crower gets up to ~190 lbs with a .400" lift, so dual valve springs is the way to get the spring pressure needed for the big big cams. Its good to know comp and fp are the same. I like how easy it is to see the info on FP's site about the cams, and they are a good price.

~John

Re: Head Porting Question
 

Crower information:
http://www.engintecs.com/html/valve_springs.html

Re: Head Porting Question
 

I understand that, but since I had a head with quite a few miles on it, I decided to just go with some new springs because I wasn't sure how worn out the stock springs were. I had my head off, and figured it was a good time just to go ahead and upgrade them to assure that I wouldn't run into valve float.

But I didn't know that all the HKS cams had the same lift, so that's nice to know that I could upgrade to those. I never plan on revving over 8500, and the only time the motor would ever see that kinda RPM's would be when it's at the track, which it hardly ever will be. Are the FP3's comparible in lift to the HKS's? Or would running those on crower springs be pushing it a little bit?

Re: Head Porting Question
 

I'm running Crower 64415 cams with crower springs and retainers, so far no issues up to 8500. I'm not sure what the lift is, but I'm sure that being their race cams it is a significant increase.

Chris

Re: Head Porting Question
 

I have check both stock DSM and Crower springs and found that at a installed height of 1.57"(stock) that the crower is 7% stronger then stock and at ~.460" lift the Crower spring would be 10% stronger then stock. This was a used stock spring compared to the new Crower but I think the 3% stated by Enginetecs is a little low. Crower springs and retainers with a good valve and valve job with be what most need for their dsm. Then if more is need 1mm over and some port work to fit the setup to produce the most power, its all about sizing everything in the setup to work together to net the best results.

~John

Re: Head Porting Question
 

The FP3's are designed for the bigger displacement DSM motors and I just heard real good things about them on one of my 2.4's. The FP2's are comparable to the 272's. The x versions of each are a little hairier, but should still be fine on the Crower springs up to the FP3x's.

I'll be upgrading my 272's this winter sometime.

Re: Head Porting Question
 

It was after hearing about your friends results that I started thinking about going with the FP3's and ditching the 272's. But I didn't realise they're mainly for the larger motors. I'm still 2.0. I suppose I should just stick with my 272's and just be happy with them.

Re: Head Porting Question
 

I would stay with 272's also, unless you are putting on a SMIM and a SCM61 or larger turbo.

~John

Re: Head Porting Question
 

272's are still the all-around best cam out there. I've only heard of the one pair being better, and only on a real big combo.

Re: Head Porting Question
 

So I am looking at buying the valve springs now and was looking for reports or opinions for valve springs that will fit the Crower Stage 3 64114 cams. Will the crower springs and retainers work or should I go with something better if there is a better single valve setup or is there a deciently affordable and reliable dual valve spring set out there. Please send me any links to where the deals are at or if any vendors have any deals going on as well I would much appreciate it.

Re: Head Porting Question
 

Here is a cost effective option from Brian Crower. These should work very well with the 414's.

Brian Crower Valve Spring/Retainer Kit $209.99

VALVE SPRING/RETAINER KIT
Designed for high rpm, BC valve springs are wound from only the highest grade, super clean, chrome silicone alloy and feature proprietary processing procedures for consistent pressures. BC titanium retainers are CNC machined from 6AL4V round bar titanium to exacting tolerances.

Spring Pressure:
BC1100 Seat: 1.500" @ 95 lbs / Open: 1.000" @ 235 lbs / Coil Bind: 0.910" (no machine work required)

http://www.briancrower.com/makes/mit...16v1retkit.jpg

Re: Head Porting Question
 

I run the regular Crower combo on my car with 415's in it, but I only rev to 7,800 RPM. 415's are WAY bigger though.

Re: Head Porting Question
 

The 64114s are not a huge cam, but who knows, Crower keeps changing the specs for the damn things. Since HKS came out with the 280 cams, Crower calls that cam as a 280. You could probably run it to a limited RPM with the stock valvetrain, but that BCS kit is a hell of a deal.

Re: Head Porting Question
 

What are these cams comparable to and also is there anything I should know or links to view on assembling a new built head with new cams, valves and springs and retainers. What HP gain should I see out of these cams on a 6 bolt swap on a 20g woth all supporting mods on dsmlink? What should I rev to for maximum effiency and performance on this setup as well?

Re: Head Porting Question
 

Is there really any difference between the Crowers Springs that have been on the market forever, and these new Brian Crower springs?

Re: Head Porting Question
 

How much better are they really and what are they rated for a max rpm?

Re: Head Porting Question
 

Doesn't give a max RPM, but maybe someone more informed about spring pressures could chime in? From what I have heard these are very similar, if not identical, to the springs/retainers offered by Manley...

Chris

Re: Head Porting Question
 

You can't rate them for max RPM without knowing what cams they are used with. They probably aren't even usable with something like an FP2x or FP3x cam that requires some fairly strong springs.

Re: Head Porting Question
 

So can I use them with the cams listed above that I got?

Re: Head Porting Question
 

Yes, the Crowers are fine with the 64114's.