Engine Building-What Products?
 

Im researching prices on engine parts but dont know what to go with.
Shortblock: (2.4L)
Im set on eagle rods, wiseco pistons(8.7:1), Mitsu Front cover and BS elim.
What Bearings are good?
ARP mains or stock?

Head:
Im set on 5 Angle Vavle Job, HKS 280 cams, Greddy Cam Gears, Cometic HG and ARP Headstuds.
Im thinking Manley 1mm over valves, Manley Springs and retainers, New mitsu Rockers, New "revised" Lifters.
Do I need better Valve guides, Vavle stem seals, Keepers?

Also Over all are the parts I am set on good? Whats a good local machine shop(shoreview)? Ive been trying to research this and cant really find a solid answer.

Thanks,
Mike

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Power level you are building for? 1g or 2g head?

Stay with stock main bolts (new only please).

I hear good and back about the Weisco pistons. Buy the Magnus designed Ross pistons 8.5-9.0:1cp and set them at their recommended clearnce.

Never tried the Manley valve train on an import. I have Supertech components with no problems yet.

I'm on my second Cometic HP HG, I pushed the first one a little too hard. If this one starts to go, I'll switch over to the HKS "Stopper" HG.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Power level... I have no idea. Anywhere from 300-600 haha. Its a 1G head with a 6bolt 2.4l.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

sounds almost identical to my setup. i used new stock mains, new front case, eagles, wisecos, 272s, arp headstuds, cometic non-hp HG, crower springs and ti retainers with stock size SS valves.

all that in a 2g head though, hyundai bottom end.

like you are doing, i did some research and just went with proven parts. i'm not trying to set any records here, i just want a running motor.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Sounds like you are on the right track, as far as bearings go we prefer King or ACL which we get a pretty good deal on btw ;)

As far as main studs we have made over 650whp without them. It also saves you the cost of getting it align honed which is a must if you go that route.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Chris could you send me a price on the above listed parts at you convenience. Thanks! Thanks for your input guys.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

MAP built me a motor comparable to what you're looking for. I went 2.0 with mahle pistons, eagle rods, King Bearings, Stock Mains, Cometic HG, crower springs/retainters, stock valves, 272's, etc. So far so good.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Are you going to be doing the assembly?
I would recommend King or ACL bearings (I've been using them for 2+ years without problems).
A turned down balance shaft is a good option, it gives you the rear bearing support.
ARP Mains are nice, but the stockers hold plenty of power. Since I have seen stock motors that aren't "perfect" we have all of our blocks inspected and most of them atleast honed. You get what you pay for when it comes to engines and machine work. I would highly recommend having the block machined with a torque plate.

Any stainless steel valve will be happier in a brass valve guide. We have had excellent success with SI products.
If you need help fell free to send myself or John a pm. Combined I think we have the most 4g63/mitsubishi high performance engine experience (motor assembly, machining, parts research and development) in the twin cities. (Minus a few machine shops that have been used by multiple shops. The assembly techniques are not the same, but they do know what "we" like to see for machining tolerances).

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

I will be doing the engine build myself. After taking the class at school it brought up my confidence a bit to do it myself AGAIN. Maybe this one will make it past the 1000 mile mark! Thanks for the advise.
Josh, and Chris as Im doing prices right now could you send me prices on the listed parts above at your convenience. That would be great!

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Be sure to have them set the valve guides a little under stock height. That will give you room for big cams. Go like .050" under just for good measure. Mine were all over the place when I got mine back, I took it back and had them redo it.

I have an almost identical engine. Wiseco 8.8's, eagles, ACL bearings, ported head with Crower springs, Fidanza cam gears, SI 1mm over SS nitride coated valves. You will be really happy with the setup.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Ive thought about it alot more and I think right now I am going to scrap the head project. Right now I just want my car up and running so I can actually drive it.
Will the stock head be ok with a 2.4? The head was just rebuilt.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Yeah, just toss the cams in it and probably springs/retainers. All that will transfer into a new head too.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

That head will work, you will need the dohc 2.4l cam gears and timing belt though. I sent you a pm about the parts as well.

Oh, and in case you didn't already know when it comes to 4g63/4g64 engine building we have made 686whp on a 4g64 and ran 11.08 @ 134.77 on a stroker 4g63 running 25 psi on E85. Proven results speak for themselves...

Chris

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Mike-What parts are you looking for?
King bearings, $85/set, any size you need. This is for Mains and rods.
Wiesco Pistons.
Part number K564M87. This is the 4g64 piston. .020" overbore. 8.5-8.7 comp ratio. Standard pin (you will be fine with a stock piston pin for the power levels you are looking for, upgraded pins can be purchased for around $9 a piece). LSE Performance price $449.99 plus tax.
Eagle rods.
Part number: CRS5900MA3D. This is the 6 bolt 4g63 standard length rod.
LSE Performance price $309.99 plus tax.

ARP Head studs. 207-4201
6 bolt un-cut. $94.99 Complete set with studs, nuts, washers, and arp moly lube.
ARP Main studs. 207-5401
ARP Mains. $64.99. Complete set with Studs, nuts, washers, and arp moly lube.

Now on your motor, I would recommend to switch to a 4g63 cap style or to "pin" the caps. If you have any more questions feel free to call or pm. Finally you can re-degree your stock cam gears or purchase new ones from a DOHC 2.4 7 bolt galant. Last time I checked I think the cam gears were $40ish each? I don't remember, Jet would.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

You have a pm regarding "proof".

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

The 1g head should work just fine, head work if done right will help later for sure, I would deck the head and have a valve job done to start. Also I would buy ARP mains and have the block line honed, because the 6bolt 2.4s use individual main caps, the 7bolt 2.4 has a main girdle and stock main bolts and a line hone would be good for most applications with a main girdle.

~John

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Thank you guys for the Prices!Those are the parts I was looking for.

The head I have now has like 1000 miles on it, Got a 3 angle valve job, valve seals, one new valve and I got it decked.

I have heard a little bit about the "pin" for the caps, Could you tell me what that is. Also if I ask the machine shop to do it will they know what im talking about?

Also whats a good machine shop for DSMs? I brought my head to Motors By Gosh and I was happy with the service I got. But is there any other place. LSE and MAP where do you bring yours?

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

The pinning is something we do and unfortunally is only available thru us. It involves making sure that the main caps can't move. Something needed on the HIGH HP items. (good safety item for someone that spares no expense on machine work).
Another item that is available only thru us is the turned down balance shaft. I did a HUGE batch so they are available at $60. We have the counter weights machine off. This gives you the lightness and the rear bearing support, best of both worlds!

I've used Motor's by Gosh before, they do pretty good work. John is a good guy. I heard he went to the Carquest in Ramsey,but might be re-starting his shop in Forest Lake now?
I have a few other sources that I wish to not disclose at this time.

The performance gains on a 3 vs 5 angle valve job are noticeable but usually not worth the additional port work required to make it worth while. As long as you have good quality valve seals, proper valve stem and valve guide install heights, and the head is flat, I would run with it. The DSM head flows VERY well for an oem product.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

What's the difference between the LSE process and Quinn Whipple's CRCO process?
http://www.crco.com/

Mike, personally, if you want to dig deep into the main cap issue, I would drop Kevin Kwiatkowski an e-mail:
http://www.kigglyracing.com/Main_Girdle.htm
What are you going to run for a turbo?

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Very similar process, we just have had our own set of bushing made up with slightly different tolerances.
The kiggly main girdle solution looks interesting, I've just never seen it first hand.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

That main girdle thing is interesting.
Right now I have a 20G turbo. Its just a FWD so I dont want to go too big. BUT I want the engine to handle "anything" I throw at it.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

The main girdle piece looks nice, but I think they might want to torque the main studs to spec then see if they still have this problem.
" Torquing the main bolts to as much as 55ft-lbs didn’t help this at all."
The spec for ARP mains (10mm 190,000psi stud) is 60 lb/ft which is only 75% or the yield strength, they could try going a little more than 60 lb/ft to see if that helps. Also if they installed arps they should have line honed the block. If I have to make a piece like that I would integrate a windige tray into it.

~John

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

So let me get this straight. You're saying that the performance gain of a 5-angle valve job is not worth the extra time (sparing no expense at the machine shop)? The gains seen between a 3-angle and 5-angle valve job are typically 6-7cfm per port (from personal experience on a flow bench), and all you have to do is simply request this from your machine shop. How hard is that? If you are sparing no expense it is definately worth looking into.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

They were referring to stock main bolts at this point... Looks like a piece worth looking into though!

Chris

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

You'd have to read more about it to know what it was designed for. It's not a band-aid for improper torque specs. It's one of those things that if you need it, you'd know.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

The pics on the web page and the motor they talk about was using arp mains, so I thought that was the torque spec they used for the arps. Making a plate like that would not be hard, but $150 is a good price.

~John

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

just use stock cam gears. you can re-mark them yourself and spend the 40 bucks somewhere else!

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Yeah, there is no need to buy 2.4 cam gears.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

You are seeing 6-7cfm per port on a dsm head by changing out to a 3-angle to a 5-angle valve job? Whom-ever is doing the 3 angle valve job sucks then. Just going by personal experience ;). I am assuming you did this in school, or did MAP buy a flow-bench? Maybe you can tell me at what pressures those gains were seen at? Cam height? Valve seat angles? Where were they seen? Peak? Low-lift? Midrange? Overall gains? What size valves were these on? What flow bench? What bore size? Please enlighten me in your experiences.

I have done plenty of research into valve seat angles compared to cfm gains in different ranges, you do realize that the cams we are working with are usually less than .450" lift? I also have done PLENTY of research into wear characteristics and longevity of a 3-angle valve job vs. a 5-angle on a STREET CAR.

Different part selection, changing valve heights, adjusting port configuration are all more things "worth it" on a spare no expense situation.

Finally, if you read the customers post, instead of a my posts, you would realize that he has already paid for a 3 angle valve job on his current head and was inquiring if it should be sufficient. I was simply stating the added costs of going to a 5-angle valve job won't notice him huge gains. Hince the recommendation of going with a 3-angle valve job.

So I will state again. The costs involved compared to the potential performance gains will lead me to state that Mike will be better off keeping his current head and putting the money elsewhere.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

The cam gears are off by 1/2 a tooth. How do plan to re-mark them? Either way you are 1/2 tooth advanced or 1/2 tooth retarded. Buy 2.4L gears or adjustable 2.0L gears and degree them in like I did.

From reading this thread, you might want to let somebody build it for you.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

You could remark your 2.0 gears, they'd be exactly half a tooth clockwise from the original marks. Like Vicious, I bought the 2.4 gears, timing is just not something I'd do half-assed.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Just mark them like this. Yes i know they arent the stock gears but who cares? The marks line up the same way.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Is there a huge cylinder head flow difference between 3 angle vs. 5 angle valve seats....? Not so much.

I've spent countless hours on SuperFlows, from the old tube style pressure readers, to the new "touch one button" setups playing with all kinds of cylinder head setups. I've only seen some minor gains here and there, typically in the low lift numbers with different seat angles, including radius'd exaust valve heads flowing them at 25 and 28 inches of water. I know some guys that would pay big bucks if you could get them an additional 7cfm's out of their heads. :D

I reread that and it sounded like I don't condone 5 angle seats. If you have the cutters, by all means multi-angle cut the seats, backcut your intake valves and radius your exaust valve, but don't expect huge gains. Put your trust into someone who will make sure you have a good set of guides and knows how your seat width will work with your particular combination. And lastly, lap the damn things in. They only have to touch them for a second to see where the valve hits the seat and it saves the hassle of getting an uneven seat or valve face because the cutter chattered the seat. Even with a Sunnen automated cutter you can still get crappy seats. The machine work is only as good as the guy sending it out the door.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Damn, homie's got a gear drive set-up. ;)

If I remember correctly the difference is about 4.5 deg of cam timing in either direction. Ask anybody who's done building and/or tuning and they will tell you 4.5 deg is alot. Do it right. You'll spend many times the cost of the gears trying to get back that power difference.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

shane, mo and cher all made some pretty respectable power with remarked STOCK CAM GEARS friend ;)

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

This thread is great.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

I remarked my timing gears, I bought a 2.4 timing gear from mitsu to overlay on the stock 2.0 gears like forever ago. I have no idea where my 2.4 gear ended up, I know its floated around the community for remarking stockers. No problems here, pretty simple modification.

Jim

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

I have OEM 2.4 gears you can buy/rent. PM me if interested.

$10 per gear (I paid $17.14 and $18.20 excluding tax and shipping)

I ended up marking a set of AEM adjustables.

Headwerks did my machine work to the bottom end and so far it's taken 10,000 plus miles of my amateur assembly and tuning abuse. lol

They too recommend OEM main bearings unless I wanted to align hone the mains. I'm using all OEM bearings, Eagle rods, and Ross pistons.

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

I seriously doubt that. Do you understand where the problem is in running the 2.0L gears on a 2.4L block?

Re: Engine Building-What Products?
 

Mike what are you saying? Shane, Cher, Mo, and myself all overlaid a stock 2.4 cam gear on top of a stock 2.0 cam gear and remarked the timing marks. Pretty simple and widely done, back when I did the 2.4 swap I don't think there were 2.4 cam gears available other than stock.

Jim