Right now im trying to figure out what standalone I want. Basicly I want a standalone so that i can fine tune the car and have more opions. Tunning is God, thats how i see it. So I want the best there easy but I also want something semi user friendly and not to hard to use. I have been more than concidering the AEM EMS. I hear good things, I hear bad things about it. I want to know what your thoughts on it are. I'm wondering if I should go with a none AEM Wideband (I hear bad things about). Or would it be best to stick with all AEM for tunning? Anyone that has it please speak up on how you like it and what not.

The big question is. Is it worth the money? If not than what is?

For "all out" tuning go with the AEM or Haltec. DSMLink is another great option.

Its going to be for a 1g. (i know you can convert it). I have windows 95 on a old ass labtop but not DOS which i hear you need to run haltec on right?

Go with the AEM EMS. There are several of us around that have them and I haven't heard any complaints since the new software came out. The AEM also plugs right in. For a wideband I would not go with the AEM. I would check out the Techedge V2, that is what I have (my 2nd wideband). It uses the cheap VW sensors.

For a 2g I would go DSMlink, for a 1g AEM as long as you are willing to do some studying up on it.

Rambling long rant mode on:

Get the AEM EMS P&P if you really think you need one. It's going to be the easiest to install and use. It you are hardcore into weight reduction then look into a Haltech, Autronic, Motec, SDS, etc. AEM makes a race non-p&p version, but it's quite spendy compared to the P&P versions. The AEM is the best bang for the buck in my opinion. Some people like the SDS for simplicity and price, but I can't see spending all that money on a standalone that can't datalog.

What in your setup is going to require a standalone? You can go a long way with just an AFC and right size injectors or with DSMLink on the 2Gs. The amount of time that it takes to get a standalone running like a factory ECU car isn't for everyone. Don't expect to pull a Dre and make 500whp on pump gas just because you have a standalone either. He has been working with the GEMS/Pro-EFI/AEM EMS systems for a good 3 years. He also likes to make it out like his car is 100% reliable and not tell about all the headgaskets he has been through, how his motor eats a quart of oil every 400 miles and how he can't do a 4th gear pull on that tune without destroying his spark plugs.

BTW, if you think so highly of tuning, you might want to learn how to spell it right. Tunning is a different real word and has nothing to do with tuning a car. :)

There are 2 things that are more important than tuning for a car to make good power:

1. It needs to have a combination of the right parts for the power. You might want to look beyond the cheapest parts or past the biggest name parts. For example, the throttle body flanges on the Dejon tool upper i/c pipe are just way too thin to trust for a good seal. And the Greddy FMIC is a decent setup but it's components are bit of a compromise. A 1G BOV is cheap and then can hold a fair amount of boost when crushed, but some of them can be faulty to begin with and leak no matter what you try to do. You have to make compromises too, if you want to make 500whp expect to have to run a laggy turbo. Even with all the advances lately with ball-bearing and GT wheels they will still be some lag. And if you do make a super high flowing compressor wheel spool quickly it will probably just surge anyways.

2. It needs to be installed correctly with an attention to the small details. The simple shit like checking for and fixing boost leaks using an air compressor not a bicycle pump can make a huge difference in power. It doesn't matter how efficient your turbo is if it's leaking 5 psi to the atmosphere.

It took me so long to type that 3 people posted before me. Since its a 1G, you can do pretty good with the chips out now and a 2G MAS and AFC.

Some good info in there. Lots of rambling at the end like you said... I don't plan on having my car run great. I understand it will take time to get the car running right an di understand that. Also whiling to wait. I know all about dre and how he melts sparkplugs and stuff. Than agian im not going for 500AWHP on pump gas. As for the installing of the car componts QPR is doing the big stuff for now. So i would hope they well do a good job. In the future i plan on running nirtous and what nots in a couple of years.

Jet do you got a link for the Wideband you use?

Anyone else got problems with the AEM wideband? If so what Wideband do you use?

Here is the order page for the TechEdge. Their kit is very widely used. There are a few others that are similar, but I don't see as many people using them. You will want one that uses the Bosch LSU4 sensor, not the expensive NTK L1H1 sensor. The V2 also has internal datalogging, but that isn't of use for you.

Thanks

i think standalones are ghey unless its for an all-out race car. i saw so many 10 sec cars at the SO running vpcs, afcs, and maf trans that i made my decision then to never own one.
another thing, do you really think you could grasp working a device as complicated as this? i know jet and ryan were toying with the programs for the AEM months before they even got it.

don't be another example of too much money and too little brains. you can build a fast car w/o buying every expensive black box, a 2.4, or even rims!

Alright so you think i would have just as good luck or better tuning with what? I agree that I would have a hard time tuning it.

a 2g maf, VPC, or gm maf. people have consistantly made good power with them. i heard the next version of the gm maf trans will have an afc like feature built in, much more resolution than the current version

Get a VPC, people are selling them cheap used these days and there's only three knobs to get in trouble with. Plus you get rid of that stupid MAF shit.

I'm thinking MAFT and 3" GM MAF. Wideband, pocketlogger. Need something to control Timming though.

ah, yes. delicious timming

With the chips that are now available with fuel correction, maf correction, ect. ect. ect. I don't plan on owning an AEM for a while, maybe never who knows. It wasn't hard to get john's car to make power. The hard part is/was idle, knock noise setup (mainly cause he had a noisier engine, with extremely conservative settings I/we could get the noise table to look like other people's, even on C16, but we ran it rather noisy and when the head came off, absolutely no sings of knock) It is life easier if you keep it simple. I plan on it. And yes, if you get one you MUST RTFM!

ah, yes. delicious timming [/b][/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol: I want to control timming 'cause I want to do some major tunning too... :lol: :lol:

Tuning is the key to unlocking power, but just because the system is easy to use, doesn't mean it will get you the most power. The aftermarket controller/standalone market is flooded with systems, not enough techs. Nearly all systems have problems, you just have to pick your poision.
Either way, in the end the car WILL haul out, its just which system do you want?
mas setup/afc combo:
pro: Great street combo, basic, fairly user friendly.
con: not as adjustible as most fuel controllers, can't control timing, can't control rev-limiter, can't datalog internally.
So now we have maft ($300) and afc (300), now we add a timing controller (many available, range in prices, for ease we'll say $300). now we add a eprom ecu, btw andy, how is that search going? so we can run a tmo or whatever they call them now. I think that upgrade is also $300. Pretty sweet now we have piggy backs on piggy backs on a hacked ecu, all for 1200+and no datalogging.
Or we go standalone:
aem or haltech, both have user support, both have problems, both cost over 1k.
vpc+fuel controller (fine tune)+ ignition timing, still spendy.
The entire point is tuning can be done, is just what do you want to deal with? If I were to run piggy's i'd go emanage with maft. That gives you ignition timing, fuel control, and a larger mas. Standalone, as much as I don't like them, problem AEM.
Just my $.02, just like everyones.
Oh and welcome to the spelling bee,::flame suit::, jimmy cracked corn and I don't care if its misspelled.

My opinion on the Stand alone system. is this

For my 2G I wish I could go back and get the DSMLINK back when I first got my car. It opened my eyes to so much more then just EGT Temps and SAFC controls.

However I'm one of those people that has the laptop running each time I go out.

I love it because of the wide range of things I can do with it. Not just Fuel/Timing controls.

I can log almost any thing on my car. And because of that it allowed me to find several faults in my Set up. From running 115% IDC on my RC 550's running 20psi on pump gas, to High intake temps.

Plus it has the Stutterbox and NLTS Capabilities which I'm loving.

At all times I'm logging/watching:
-timing, knock,IDC, A/F Ratio, HP, RPMS. FRONT 02,Int Temp,Cool Temp,LTFT LO, LTFT, Air Flow lbs/mn, AirFlow g/s, AirFlow per Rev g/rev , LTFT Mid.

Anycase I say a stand alone is something that no matter what HP. Is a useful tool that's well worth the money and won't be a waiste.

-Brian

first of all, im cusious how your injectors are open for more than 100% of the time?

Standalones must do wonder's to injectors

anycar can go higher than 100% I dont know why or whats the limit but I guess Ive seen that before with alot of cars. My car with fuel cut if it goes that high...

Yea, but the DSMlink is not as confusing or time consuming as a standalone.


As for Iceman, get a car first, then go from there as to what you wanna do with it. For all you know, you could buy this standalone and never build a car worthy and end up using it on a 14b with exhaust :stick: Maybe not even that.


http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v...ernet_suck.gif

How do you expect to run a standalone? :lol: .. jk :cheers:

My duty cycle sits in the low 130 range at 22psi on pump gas. Thats according to the logger with both a VPC and an AFC. I have no clue how either of these affect the signal though.

I don't know what the limit is on the IDC. But when ever I went WOT it was always over 100%.

With my 650's it was usually at around 96%


Hense why I upgraded to 850's.

Hoping with a good dyno tune by shane that'll get down into the 80% at WOT.

-brian

1)Injector duty cycle doesn't mean how long they are open, it means how long the ecu is requiring them to be open, when idc's are over 100% you are running static, and your injectors are too small.
2)James will have a car worthy of many controllers or standalone ECU system.
3) When you post questions like this, especially a site with a bunch of locals on it, who constantly jab at each other, you will get a bunch of unsupported and/or fraudulent answers.
Just my $.02.
Want to learn about the systems?
www.aempower.com
www.apexi-usa.com
etc..etc..etc..try searching forums for more than one type of car, and see how the general feel for the controller(s) is/are.

I'll let you in on a secret.
Everyone will love the s-afc, they are easy to use, cheap to buy, and apex-i has flooded the market with them, they have practically shoveled the units out there back door.
The other big companies (HKS, Greddy, etc) all have controllers, but they aren't as hyped up.
AEM has mixed feedback. The ones that get it, get it, the ones that don't, well their cars don't run, and you hear about it on every forum. Standalones are better than piggybacks, no questions asked. The only question you should ask is of yourself. How confident are you in your own personal learning abilities?

Every piggyback on the market is 'plug and play' thus allowing the user to say they 'tune' there car, when most of the time, the car would run better if it had no controller on it at all. Then there are folks who slap on standalones on cars that have no business using them (hence what quest was hinting towards). Finally there are actually 'tuners' out there that understand what IDC, A/F, ignition timing maps, injector pulse width (see IDC), flame fronts, detonation, knock, knock sum, fuel tables, fuel curves, fuel enrichment, decel/accel, etc..etc..etc.. what all that stands for, what it does, and how everything works together.
Sorry for the rant, but some of the replies on this thead just erk me the wrong way, but I guess this is the parking lot, not advanced tech/basic tech.
I think I am just going to hold back up in the tech forums, lol.
:banana: :banana:
In the end, its his call, its just how confident he feels about his abilities/trusts the opinions of peers.

It's all a learning game. No one came into this world with the knowledge of how everything works.

Like I mentioned before the dsmlink opened up a whole new world of tuning for me.

Before then all I knew was EGT's and which way to go with the SAFC settings.

I had no logging capabilites or anything else to let me know what happened when I changed something all I went by was what the settings were after an hr of dyno time. Ran the car on the street and then made note of where everything was at.

EGT's, SAFC Settings. Then when ever the temps changed or what not I just changed the SAFC Settings so that the EGT's were close to where they were on the dyno. (not really a good method but hey it was working well enough to make me happy)

Now with the Logger I can actually see what happens when I make a change. (and I can now understand a couple words of what Josh was talking about in that last post where as before I felt like Joey from Friends.

-brian
ps: in anycase it is your choice. SAFC is easy to use and understand. But buy a logger also.

I have been ready the AEM forums for about 2 months now. I have a good grasp on how it works and all but some things still on there are hard to understand without it in your hands. I'm going with the AEM EMS with 3.5Bar sensor. Along with the wideband that jet has had good experince with (thanks agian). I understand basic tuning and than some. Even if I can't tune it, I have friends that know how to use it.

Umm thanks some...

I also have the AEM (klavico) 3.5bar sensor. It is the one to have. I would recommend tapping its own port on the intake manifold to give it a good solid reading.

Brian- Do you have a wideband? If not, go sit in the corner with Chris Carey! Without it you are using maybe 50% of the potential of the DSMlink and stand a good risk of killing your car. It will be one of the best $300 you ever spent.

ahhh haha. the memories from the SO last year all come flooding back to me.

ahhh haha. the memories from the SO last year all come flooding back to me. [/b][/quote]
HUH? :smoker:


I haven't made it to a shoot out yet? I don't own a Wideband so I'm off to the corner. :headache:

I do plan on getting one eventually. But I'm more into driving my car then tuning which is why I had over 75 pulls on the Dyno with my GS-T. I know I'm not the smartest when it comes to tuning I feel I'm just starting. Until I feel confident enough I'll let Shane tune my car.

I'll be looking into the WB once I do the turbo upgrade. (probably sometime next Fall)