Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/05/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

Interesting read.


On a kinda side note, this makes me also wonder why people like Oprah and other VERY weathly are done paying taxes on the first day of the year due to paying a set limit.. What's with this bullshit as well? Is it true that people can only pay so much in taxes?

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

It's not that they can only pay so much, it's that only so much of your income is taxable. Their are limits on you taxable income. So yes, once you hit those limits, you are done.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

That's absolute bull shit. There is no reason why anyone earning more than $10 million needs any sort of tax break. We study this kind of stuff in my econ class at school. Someone who has that type of cash flow has no need to for a tax brek, nor will they be too thrilled. Whats 500,000 when your annual income is 10,000,000.

I would just like to add that this year, we are supposed to set a new world record for national deficit breaking last years record of 400+ billion and actually breaking into the 500+ billion category.

Our President is an Idiot!!!

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

And I thought that he was going to pay for his own war............

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

On the other hand a lot of those guys pay more taxes a year then some people will pay in their life. Is that "fair"? What is the definition of "fair" when it comes to taxes?

It would be insteresting to see all the numbers on the tax break. Like how much they are already paying. How much this actually costs the US, etc. The article seemed pretty slanted.

I'm guessing this is a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of money that's pissed away on stupid crap (like banning gay mariage, etc). :rolleyes:

I do agree though that "Our President is an Idiot!!!". I may not have agreed in the past but it's quite obvious that at best he's not doing much good, and at worst he's doing an awful lot of bad.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

We need to get away from these political dipshits and get someone in the office that knows numbers. I'd take the Enron accounting department at this point.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

I read something a while ago with a figure on that. I think it was something like the top 5% pay 90% of the taxes. I can't remember the actual numbers, but I know it was pretty lopsided. I'll see if I can find it.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

I don't see why it's so unfair though. Considering you could probably take what the top 5 people earn on this site for one whole year and not even come close to what Oprah makes in an hour. Let her pay more of the taxes, she's making more of the money.

This is probably why I think a flat tax is a good idea though.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Based on the 2003 IRS tax data, the same year referenced in the article in the first post:

The top 1 percent of taxpayers, ranked by adjusted gross income, paid 34.3 percent of all federal income taxes.
The top 5 percent of taxpayers paid 54.4 percent
The top 10 percent of taxpayers paid 65.8 percent
The top 25 percent of taxpayers paid 83.9 percent.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

This is the question of the ages. How do you determine who should pay what percentage, who should get a break, who should pay more, who should pay less? These are the questions that everyone asks. In my econ class we discussed what would be an equal hitfor different tax groups. Is 18% of $20,000 as eqaully painfull 30% of a $100,000, or whatever the differnet tax brackets are. I'm not talking literal numbers, but does that hit hurt the person earning $100,000 as much as the person earning $20,000. It's a rhetorical question, but it's damn near impossible to determine what an equal hit is to the rich and the poor.

And even though these people pay more annually than others ever pay, do they actually need a tax break, are taxes breaking these peopes' backs, i honestly do not thinks so...

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Wow! Stop and think about those numbers for a minute. We have 1% of the population paying 34.3% of ALL taxes. The top 25% of the population are paying 84% of the taxes. How many of the people bitching are in the top 25% ? We aren't a socialism, we shouldn't have people taking home similar amounts of money no matter how much they make.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

I love how people blame the president for everything....

When you know damn well that congress controls this.

-Colin

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Average Tax Rate (% of AGI paid in income taxes) 2003
Top 1% - 24.31%
Top 5% - 20.74%
Top 10% - 18.49%
Top 25% - 15.38%
Top 50% - 13.35%
Bottom 50% - 2.95%

Any way you look at it, the more money you make, the more taxes you pay.

Here's some more info for reference:
Minimum AGI for tax return to fall into a given percentile (2003).
Top 1% - $295,495
Top 5% - $130,080
Top 10% - $94,891
Top 25% - $57,343
Top 50% - $29,019

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

I'm with you, the Top 1% of Taxpayers pay way more than their FLAT share of Taxes!

What if you have a good idea, work harder, and be sucessfull you should pay a higher PERCENT of taxes?

Be lame, drop out, don't think, don't work hard and you get REWARDED by get a LOWER PERCENT TAX?

That's what is taking the motivation away in America, it just doesn't pay to do what's right and work hard anymore!

Is that "Fair"?

But who realy gets the shaft is the middle to "upper middle", they have all the higher Taxes with none of the lower or higher income level breaks!

Too "Rich" to get student loans for your kids, AFDC, Section 8 and Food Stamps, but too poor to BUY yourself a tax shelter, we are the middle and we are screwed, just "pulling the wagon" for the bottom and the top!


IMHO.....

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

bush has veto power

which he apparently isn't going to use.



this is a horrible idea. he is basically dropping the GNP of the county by doing this. I guess the war isn't sucking enough money from the united states, he needs to give people tax breaks aswell.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Here here!

I couldn't have said it better myself!!!

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

LOL, That's some insightful imput dumbass.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Are you saying that it is worth droping out of high school and being a bum, just to save a few pennies on taxes. Of course not. People are still motivated to make work hard and make money, because they will still make a lot more money by doing so, even if they get taxed more.

I feel that the "poor" people shouldnt be taxed at all, look at the #'s above. The amount of taxes they pay, doesnt make that big of a difference to the government, but it sure would make one hell of a difference to them.

They could tax me (upper middle class) more, because I know that my parents and I wouldnt be affected that much by it.


I dunno, just my opinions.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

What the F#CK is the difference? Taxes here, taxes there, everyone pays period. Do you really think that taxing the rich more is going to take away from their bottom line? Or are they just going to pull in more money from everywhere else?
If you think that not taxing the lower class will lead to a better quality of life for them then you're dillusional. The same goes for those who think everything that happens in Washington is Bush's doing.
Our basic tax system is pretty close to being fair. Yes, the middle class gets the shaft, but that's going to happen under any political leadership in this country unless MASSIVE reforms occur.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Look, my wife won't even take any overtime anymore because it bumps her in the next tax bracket and she makes LESS than not working at all!

The more you work, the less % of your own money you get to keep? That's anti productive and anti-american, period.

The motivation to work is getting less and less? Why work 60 hours a week to buy your first house when section 8 will give you one for free? Yes our welfare system is now BUYING houses for "the poor"...makes me sick!

Also by giving "the poor" a pass on there flat % and fare share of paying for the services they receive you give them the more motivation to keep their victum/entitlement mentality that is already to pervasive in our soceity today.

"The poor" in the USA are largely a by product of substance abuse, neglectful one parent households, haven been taught no standards, self respect or moral work ethic.

Barring few exceptions, there is virtual no reason to be "poor" in america besides ones own self destuctive actions. Time has proven my point, after 40 years of the "new deal" giving more money to the poor, are things today any better for the "poor"? Has giving money to them REALLY helped them? No it hasn't the situation is worse than ever. The CORE issue with most of the "poor" today is rampent moral decay, not loss of oppurtunity.

Once one realizes that the MAIN reason that ones life is so screwed up, is staring them in the mirror, and not "the man", their parents, the system or whatever else, and you can admit the main fault is with yourself, you can change!

You don't have power over "the man", your parents, the system or most whatever else in this, BUT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO REGAIN POWER OVER YOURSELF, RIGHT?

I know, I was "poor", but after years of blaming everyone else and it not facing my own demons and changing I finally realized IF I DON"T CHANGE NOTHING EVER WILL GET BETTER FOR ME!

With God's grace I did change, I cleaned up my act, went back to school, and busted my ass and just and very soon my WHOLE world got 1000% better, and now I'm "rich" in much more than just $ as well! <Solid faith, Wife, Kids, good Job, nice toys, etc>

Bottomline of the American Ideal is: YOU make your own Life what it is!

<It's not ANYONE Else's job in this world to build your life and make you happy besides YOU!>


The country needs to get back to it's roots of Loving Freedom, Country, Duty, and God <as you define him> first before we will see any real change in this downward sprial we are in now.

Historicaly that means either all out cival war and or revolution.

<Rant,Rant,Rant.......>


IMHO...

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Howie for president!

-Colin

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Not I!

Too much heat for trying to do the "right thing" for this guy.

It's like being a used car sales man, you COULD be honest, and not make any $!

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Still gotta respect him, I mean, you need quite a bit of votes to become a president.

-Colin

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Or you just need to bitch and whine enough, and tie the elections up in supreme court *cough*2000*cough*

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Oh here we go....

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Gimme a break. That street goes two ways, Gore only stepped down when his chance of winning dropped to zero.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

read quote blew. in my signature. Oh and go research some more.

Plus it really doesnt matter, he won again in 04 and we were already in a war then, so bitch all you want.

Oh and we will beat you in 08 also.

-Colin

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

On a similar subject, more wonderful government fiscal policy.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,190745,00.html

I still wonder why the hell we need an indoor rain forest in Iowa (discussed in the 2004 Pig Book), especially now that they're getting the construction site narrowed down.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Who ever said my response to the 2000 elections were partisan based, I dont go by party politics, I go by who can do the best job at the current time, so if the reps win again, I dont give a shit, if the dems win, i dont give a shit. Imagine that, an unbiased opinion. Besides, Bush won the electoral vote, not the popular vote, in both times. This countries voting system is fucked, but back to your guys fiscal rants.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

his point of view would be so different if he saw and lived how we see how does his job...

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Can someone please translate that to English?

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

HAHA. this board is all messed up. at first i thought this thread was full of democrats.

people too spread apart and inflexible on politics. everyone knows bush's plan is to make the rich richer and the poor poorer - it's the idea behind aristocracies. why the new thread about it?

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Nice post Howie! That's exactly how I feel about it.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

I'm just fucking pissed because I'm already so damn poor and I can't even afford my own place, or to pay for college, but yet I had to cut a check for a 1/4 of all the money I have?? Is it just me or is something not right here? Go after someone that actually HAS some money. That bush stuff is old news.. that was already known when he was running for election the first time.. I mean fuck, I used to live in TX and we knew he was doing that as governor!

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

I'm going to have to go out on a limb here and say that the taxes you are paying arent your main problem. It would be nice if people faced up to their financial issues instead of looking for a scapegoat or a crutch. Mike (Raptor) once said something that has always stuck with me, and that is that people are always waiting for someone else to solve their problems. Even making minimum wage you can afford to have a place to live, transportation, and put yourself through school. A couple years ago I had a teacher who had immigrated from China. He supported his wife and kid on something like $75 per week while he got an education to become a teacher.

I just cant stand it when people bitch about how bad they have it when others who obviously started off much worse are able to turn things around in a relatively short period of time. I just dont have sympathy for those who wont help themselves.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Right on!

Right Back to who's fault is your lifes present condition?

By and large YOUR OWN!

Make better and wiser choices, and you STILL will get ahead in America, but the incentive is slowly being taken away by liberal socialistic policies, that "protect the poor"?

At what just cost?

To where the Honest and Hard working people give up more and more for the parisites?

Who deserves to live a better life?

The workers, thinkers, inventors?

Or the takers, winers and lamers?

What are we promoting by giving all this money away to people who produce nothing?

Non-Production!


I'm all for helping people who want help and want OUT of poverty, but sadly most people only say they do, give them a real job with real work and they won't last a week. They would rather live off from YOUR labor!

Like CVD said, "I just dont have sympathy for those who wont help themselves."

There's no excuse for being poor here in America, your either lazy, wasted, stupid and or just want to keep sitting in the wagon while every one else pulls it for you.

Why not? Americas so generous, that she'll give you a chance after chance on the taxpayers dime, as even our "poor" have it better than 80% of the world, so why even work?

When are people finally going to understand that just giving "the poor" the taxpayers money is NOT helping people move out of their situation!

It only enables them to STAY in it!

Ultimately it seems that only Pain truely motivates people, it was the main driving force in my "conversion" from living all wasted out to getting clean, happier and much more productive, if we take all the pain and the consquences out of any bad behavor away, and what is the motivation to change???

IMHO....

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

YES! i shouldnt be too excited because if i remain a resident here I AM gonna be paying that off.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

OK, if that's the case, either the poor would be unable to live, or the rich would be paying 10, 12, or 15 thousand on their MILLIONS!!. That top 1% have annual incomes ranging from $300,000 to well, the Billionaires. If we all payed the same amount the United States would be in an unfathomable amount of debt, even though we already are.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

Actually the cutoff to be in the top 1% is $295,495. You would be right to say that if you make $10m per year you are in the top 1%, but you cannot say that the top 1% have annual incomes over $10m. Take a look at the link I posted. Here it is again: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html Take some time to read through and understand the tables that are listed. There's some revealing information there.

Re: Bush: Making the Rich richer
 

I suppose this does make a good deal of sence.


I didnt really think too much about what I was typing on my previous statement in this thread. In this country every one has great opportunities, I suppose my own personal image of "the poor" comes from when I used to live in Mexico. Where there are plenty of very hard working people, that just cant get a break no matter what, but they just keep on trying.