Hey guys. To start the topic, I've already owned a 2G GS-T, that I sold after one month of having. Well, I'm back in the market for a DSM, only this time, a 1G. I'm trying to find something cheap, so I'll prolly end up with a FWD, which isn't entirely bad, considering I don't street race. The stock 2G that I had got horrible traction, and it was stock. I was wondering how a 1G FWD with a 20G or something in that range would do with tire spin. I've read about people spinning up to 80 some MPH with this combo. I would be racing at Rock Falls, and using slicks or drag radials. Thanks for any input. Noah

my roomate runs a big 16 with dragradials. It spinns in first, but he can hookup in 2nd if he wants

I wouldn't suggest it at all. Anything FWD = Total waste of money. Get an AWD, don't make the same mistake twice.

Go AWD. If you plan to do anything other that a totally stock GS-T, go AWD.
By the way did I mention "Go AWD"?

Umm... I'm feeling an over whelming majority here. On a side note, what would the minumin engine compression that you would comsider boosting (beyond 300 whp). Is 140 out of the range? Thanks. Noah

140's not the greatest, but not the worst.

140 is getting tired but it will still run fine... just might smoke a little. Will need rings and such in the future. It wont last as long with bad compression and a 20g.

That's what I figured. I would like to build up a block anyways before going to a 20G size turbo. Modding isn't in the near future, more of a summer time thing. I will be staying in Eau Claire, so dragging would be a weekly or bi-weekly thing for me, as long as the car is up to it (knock on wood). What type of pistons would you guys use for a build up? I'm not planning on breaking the 500 whp mark, but want to make sure that the engine would last. I have heard bad things about JE pistons, and know that evo8 pistons have held up to 505 (or 550) WHP. I would also plan on auto-xing the car if that matters. I've been a domestic guy for the last eight months or so, but have always kept up with DSM's and other sport compacts. Thanks for all of the help. Noah

2g pistons or Wiseco's or Ross. EVO8 pistons won't work.

I will be running a 20G on my '94 FWD this year...for the past 2 years I have had a Big 16G. Personally...I really like my FWD, its a lot more fun in the corners. You will get massive wheel-spin at the track in a FWD so don't buy it as a 1/4 mile monster. I spun through 2nd on pump gas with the B16G...I am expecting 3rd to be a waste this upcoming year. Anyways, the better gas mileage is deffinately nice, and if you are looking for a freeway beast FWD is the way to go.

By the time you put in a Quaife and some really sticky tires on the front, you could've just had an AWD. I've driven my car a couple times in FWD mode and it'll spin the tires easily at anything under 90 mph even in 3rd and 4th gear. It also jerks to the right when the tires break loose. I've got a little more than a 20G though. :banana:

I ran a 20G on my FWD 2G. It wasn't all that fun, so I bought an AWD, or two.

Alright, thanks guys. I was hoping to get some responses from people with that setup, so that's cool. I think I have enough money for an AWD, so if I can find one that suites me, I'll pick it up. Also, thanks for the piston info ecoli. I would have elite tune it also. Noah

i had a 1g fwd w/a 20g, it was by far the gheyest car i've ever owned. wheelhop owned me on several occasions.

Joe, you got wheel-hop cuz you didn't have anything to stop it. I get no wheel-hop with my setup, but I might be crazy.

Yeah right. A stock 2g fwd gets wheel hop in second gear. This is remy's car with an intake only.

Are you attempting to argue with me about my car? If you are please tell me which products that I have purchased to help elimate wheel-hop are not working, thank you, this will be most beneficial.

I dont know your car but I know a slow ass 2g can wheel hop easily. This is the same 2g (intake, 15-14psi) that lost to a 95 tsi awd (stock) from a 55-110 roll. The 96 GST had 160 across the board for compression while the AWD had shitty compression (up and down across the cylinders). That is a f-ed up 2g and it can still wheel hop easily in 3rd.

After buying your suspension, LSD, and installing it all, wouldn't it have been alot cheaper to go AWD in the first place?

What did your non-wheel hop setup run 1/4? (16g and FMIC)

I didn't care about the cost, I bought the car that I wanted (which was actually just as expensive as the AWD's at the time). The first DSM that I ever owned was a GSX and I just didn't like driving the AWD for some reason...I think the car just felt more sluggish due to weight and had a lot more push in the corners. I am sorry to hear that your buddy's car is a POS, but I really don't see how that relates to this dilema. My car is heavily modded, his, well, isn't. To help eliminate the wheel hop, the Prothane motor-mounts, full coilover suspension with adjustable shocks, and sudo-LSD all came into play.

Oh nice you edited to you post to include this. The answer is "a whole bunch of 14's at 109" or something like that. To be perfectly honest though, I really don't much care for 1/4 racing my car, doubt I ever even will again to tell you the truth. I am not going to lie...FWD sucks ass for 1/4 mile racing and I will be the first to admit that. If I really wanted a 1/4 beast I would buy an AWD car. I am more interested in a fast street car that handles like its on rails. If you ever wanna run 'em from a roll, or in the twisties, let me know so I can get to the ATM first.

OK, if you plan on racing at RF or having this car for 1/4 use at all, go AWD. As Chris said, buy a car you want and you will be happy no matter what. It is not easy to run a FWD out of the hole with out spinning the wheels or pussying it off the line. Hell, from what I have heard, JET has problems getting out of the hole with traction in his 1g AWD.

I'll let ya know when I am ready Chris.

What John said it correct...if all you care about it blistering 1/4 mile times get an AWD. I know I am on the losing side of this battle, but I still love me some good ol' fashioned FWD.

Excellent, I'll be waiting :banana:

http://www.unix-networking.com/Vicious/smiley_383.gif Settle down children before I have to use the gavel on that ass. http://www.unix-networking.com/Vicious/smiles_69.gif

I'll take you on in the twisties Chris.....That dirt twisties that is!!!!!!

Don't forget that if he wants to get into rallycross type driving (autocrossing on dirt) an AWD is far superior to a FWD unless you are a very experienced rally driver (i.e. like Mark Utecht and others).

Look at the original topic and you will know what he plans to use the car for... Doesn't say anything about rallying.

Just giving him another option if he were to purchase an AWD. Alot of people are unaware of how much fun it is to slide sideways in the dirt, legally. And win trophies for doing it.

I understand he wants to run 1/4 mile. I did when i first got my AWD but I haven't been to a 1/4 track for 2 years now and couldn't be happier. I find much more excitement drifting sideways in the dirt.

Disclaimer---No disrespect for those that run 1/4 mile. I have nothin but respect for those that actually make real power and fast passes.

Sorry for OT- I would love to rally but I do not have the funds or time to support such a hobby. I cannot risk totalling my car by trying to take a turn a little too quick and gain the extra .1 second. I do not have the time to drive hours at a time to compete in an event. I think we all can agree it is fun but not for all of us...

:brownnoser: :woowoo: :brownnoser:

J/K

You got that right!!!! It's good someone finally notices!! :slap:

There is a big difference between ProRally and Rallycross.

ProRally----Professional drivers going thru the woods at breakneck speeds.

Rallycross--Amatuer drivers going around cones in a dirt parking lot at less than 40mph. No danger of hitting trees or other drivers. Good way to learn car control in a controlled environment.

Plus the events aren't more than 1 and 1/2 hour away from the twin cities.

If you aren't too sure about a rallycross just go to an event. There's almost always a couple people from here that go, and watching one is pretty fun, seeing everything from your daily driven grocery getter to fully prepared rally cars. Seeing one in person is really the only way to find out if it's something you'd be interested in.

I'll vouch for Chris. I love my FWD. More fun than a AWD could be I think. You guys can get off the line quicker true, but lets have a burnout contest or something like that. You gain and lose with both cars. Personally, it's a choice of your lifestyle or what you plan on doing with it. If you want a 1/4mile monster, go AWD. That's a gimme. But just like Chris, I didn't buy my GST for 1/4mile. I wanted to fuck off with it.

The guy I sold my laser to is already converting to AWD. FWD is fun for a couple of weeks, but after that it gets annoying. I know there is personal preference here. An LSD would have helped out tons, but it is still too easy to light the fronts up. FWD is for show and top end. Nice smokey burnouts and less drivetrain loss. I will take AWD and just make more power to make up for the drivetrain loss.

wow im surprised i didn't see this post before. anyways, FWD blows goats. I tried to make excuses to love my FWD, like OHHHH ITS GOOD FROM A ROLL, and stuff like that, but once i started making real power, i realised i was a moron. I had a nice little chunck of change put into that car, but the FWD made me sell it and go AWD. I hated getting up next to a Trans-Am, and having to play catch up the whole time because he roasted me on the launch. I would eventually catch and pass him, but of course he'd say that he let off the gas or sumthing. Here's what my 2g looked like. All that sweat and money i put into that car, and i regret it all. Shoulda just boughten an AWD to begin with. I'm much happier with my half ass workin awd 1g. It may not be much right now, but one day it will be!!! and i will not have to figure out the perfect way to launch it without spinning tires!!!
http://www.dsmstyle.com/coppermine/a...ne%20shot.jpeg

Even AWD's can have traction problems! You have to learn how to launch an AWD too. All that traction makes it easier to bog. It is definately a good problem to have though.

dealing with our cars, id much rather have to deal with too much traction(awd) vs. not enough(fwd)!!!

A good driver can make either car fast in a race, it's just easier in an AWD. Chris' car was fast when it was bone-stock. FWD can be a monster from the roll.