PCV System
What should I do with it? What do you guys do with it. Keep it going to the manifold or just have it vent or what?
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Re: PCV System
If you route it to the intake manifold like stock, throw a catchcan in between the two. Get a catchcan that actually does something, like one with steel wool inside it for the oil to condense onto.
You can also remove the PCV valve and route a line to your intake pipe that connects to your turbo. You'll always have vacuum so no need for the valve. Use a catchcan in this instance too. bottom line is negative pressure in your crankcase is a good thing, dont just do away with the whole system. |
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Damn, I didnt want to have to hook it up. hmm, now I got to think of a way to make it look perdy.
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Take out the PCV valve, its not creating any crankcase vacuum with an open crankcase breather (nipple/vent on left side of the valve cover when you standing in front of the car facing the engine). If you want to create a crankcase vacuum, which is a great idea, get a product called Krank Vents. I installed them on my S2000 and oil consumption has gone down to ZERO even when I went 4500 miles on an oil change (its normal for '00-03 F20C engines to consume oil, Honda claims its due to the high performance nature of the engine and the cylinder wall lining). With the engine running, its tough to pull out the dipstick with the vacuum, but when you do you can hear the air rushing in. This will prevent the typical DSM/EVO problem of the dipstick popping out under boost. Also, the crankcase vacuum will make your engine run more efficiently and you will pick up some power (non-turbo S2000's are averaging about 3whp on back-to-back runs, the boosted ones even more).
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$110 for a pcv vavle, thats kinda alot(I realize that its not just a pcv but still). Plus one of the main things is Im dont have room on my magnus to put a vacuum source. thats a main reaon I dont want to hook up the PCV. I dont even have enough room for my FPR to get vacuum.
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This thread topic is something I've been wondering about for a while. From the looks of it, the Krank vent seems like a good solution?
http://www.et-performance.com/turbo.html I am not that read up on this subject, but know it's a problem with higher hp cars and for longevity. I want a solution! |
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$110 for these things isn't exactly cheap, but at the same time they are serving a lot of functions. For the dip stick popping out its an actual solution, not just a patch like zip ties or springs to hold it in. I am glad I bought mine, I plan to get them for any car that I modify and consider to be my "good car". |
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Im sorry I didnt get a chance to read up on the krank vent but do you need hoses off of them or what? how do they hook up?
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Yeah, plug it in and seal up the crank case - don't have any leaky or open ports, I guess.
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I run the Jaz mini catch can/breather and it works fine with the stock PCV. http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...10002_69732_-1 |
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I use something simmilar to this on my car. However I didn't pay this amount of money for that! I paid like $5.00 for a pack of 4 (they came in sets). Main reason is the ones I bought are plastic and these are metal. Mine hold 125psi so I am also good on "high boost applications". These just are pretty and shiny. however they are still to be used with the PVC valve. you just splice them inline. You still need to just buy a PVC valve even with this kit. It serves a big function. I recomend putting a filter on the line as well. The problem I am running into is that I am running a GM MAFT and when the PVC valve is open I am pulling in unmetered air into the manifold. I will have you guys think about that for a while. however this is what I use: Breather side : VC -> catch can (sealed) -> intake pipe. PCV side : VC -> PCV -> optional 2nd catch can (sealed) -> heavy duty check valve (which is what that kit offers but don't pay that amount of money!) -> intake manifold. I recomend the catch cans on older cars. It does save on cleaning a lot of oil. I build my own using PVC pipe and painting it black. |
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The other reason that it is routed into the intake line is because it needs metered air. So the people that have vents on the side of their valve cover are also pulling in unmetered air through the PVC system. Kind of like what I am dealing with using a GM MAFT |
Re: PCV System
If you are running DSMLink, SFAC or MAFT you can compensate for the air bleed at idle and zero in your STFT/LTFT. So the PCV air bleed will not be an issue. How's that for thinking about it? :D
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4 Nipples on the magnus.
Brake booster MAP sensor BOV FPR/Boost gauge So lets say I have a 2" hose coming off each side of the pcv system and put the krank vents on. then thats it no other hoses need to be ran? Sorry im not understanding this too good i guess. |
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Is that the DSM MAP sensor or for an EMS? I don't even use the DSM MAP sensor with DSMLink. You could just tee the BOV line. I have this; Brake booster BOV FPR/Boost gauge PCV |
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not thinking hard enough:tongue: ok you are on the highway off boost and there is vacuum in the intake manifold. That PVC valve is still opening pulling unmetered air. I just used the Idle as an example. I am not saying that it is going to make a huge difference either. However pulling in unmetered is still kind of unwanted... |
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Its the MAP for the AEM.
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Best solution yet:
Use Krank Vents and have them open to the atmospehere (both the crankcase breather and PCV ports on the valve cover). You can either retain the stock PCV valve and hook up the KV to that, gut the stock PCV valve which is a better decision, or even better yet use the nipple from a stock 1G intake manifold where the PCV gets routed back in and screw that into the PCV port in the valve cover. The whole purpose of this is to let air out, but none in. The crankcase vacuum should help the pistons rings seal better thereby reducing or eliminating blow-by which is partly what causes crankcase pressurization and oil consumption. |
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A setup like your only take care of half of "crankcase ventilation", it will be enough to relief pressure in most cases but it will do nothing to ventilate crankcase due to lack of vacuum in the system, ventilation as in removing blow by and contaminates which will settle into your oil if not pulled out. |
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Here is how it works, at idle and cruise intake vacuum from the intake manifold is transfered thru the PCV hose, throught the PCV valve, thru the engine and on to the breather. All the breather does is supply incoming air to counter act the vacuum inside the engine which removes fumes and contaminants by sucking them into the intake to burn in the engine. So whether you get the fresh air from the intake pipe after the air filter, but before the turbo or from an external breather, it doesn't matter to the PCV system. At WOT there is no vacuum, so the PCV shuts closed and is not used. So would you rather have the fumes and contaminants go out thru an external breather/catch can or feed it into your turbo at WOT? |
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It flows both ways. Under boost, the PCV closes, and blowby and other CC leaks need a way out - through the VC breather. It helps to have vacuum to pull gasses out or they stay in the oil.
If you look at my arrangement I do have a catch can but it is sealed and hooked up back to the intake tube. So get the best of both, vacuum and something to filter out the crud that comes out the VC breather so it doesn't go into the turbo. |
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With the amount of blowby coming out of our engines under high boost, you'll never have a vacuum inside the crankcase. Even if you could put together a system to create a vacuum in the crankcase under full boost. the gains would not offset the effort. Possitive Crankcase Ventilation. Not Positive Crankcase Vacuum, get it? |
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The system doesn't go in reverse, the PCV valve closes off the flow under boost, what comes out of the breather is blowby. |
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Thats what i ment by reverse. Just in the intake hose it goes back into the intake.
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Re: PCV System
If the pressure inside the crankcase is greater than the boost level then the PCV valve will open, even while WOT under boost.
Seriously, I think Krank Vents would solve everyone's problem. No more blow-by (or at least seriously less), all the gasses and crap can flow out, and no crap being thrown into the intake track. No more dipstick popping out, better engine efficiency, and less resistance on the engine internals. |
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You can't say there is no more blowby, it's always there. It's just how you get rid of it that counts. |
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I would be highly surprised if the Kranks vents do anything else more than seal off the boost from the intake manifold. Our cars have metal PCV valves, at least my 2g does. No Krank valve on my car, the system works as it's supposed to, and I've never had a dipstick pop out. So maybe I'm just not seeing the miracle cure you guys are seeing. As long as you can relieve the crankcase pressure under WOT boost conditions, the stock PCV will work fine under normal driving condiions. That's all I'm saying.
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I think we are going in circles here and we're both right, but still not agreeing :)
A stock PCV system will work fine under normal driving conditions, but what I'm trying to get at is these KV's will help create a crankcase vacuum which has many benefits. They aren't exactly cheap, but they work as claimed. Now lets hug! |
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wow leave for lunch and a bunch of stuff is said....
ok... I would like to state I don't have any crap in my compressor wheel or intake tube because of my setup. It is pretty much the origional setup but with filters and a heavy duty check valve. Look at my set up for just a second... Breather side : VC -> catch can (sealed) -> intake pipe. intake goes before the turbo just to clarify so it never sees boost Catch can catches everything that the VC spits out which is kind of a lot of crud. After it is filtered it goes into the turbo. No crap. Now why don't I just vent to the atmosphere like everyone else... Because I believe that under high boost/ WOT when the PVC valve is closed there is a lot of blow by. This Breather side takes pressure out because the turbo take in so much air that it creates a vacuum (again before turbo) By having some sort of vacuum on it will take away pressure PLUS suck out unwanted gas. If you have it vented to the atmosphere there is a weird gas smell which I don't like. If this is hooked up to the turbo inlet tube. It does reburn it but it doesn't have the oil to go with it because the catch can caught it. Make it short No boost---> air going into valve cover side Boost ---> air going out of valve cover side If you have it vented to the atmosphere air goes in (no boost). However when you are running boost, there is pressure in the crank case and it need to go somewhere and by pressure it forces itself out of the breather side and you get weird smelling fumes The other side PCV side : VC -> PCV -> optional 2nd catch can (sealed) -> heavy duty check valve -> intake manifold. I don't get that much crap in this filter but it still works. I have a heavy duty check valve (good up to 125psi) that helps the pvc valve out. What people are experincing with just using the PVC valve is that the PVC valve won't hold high pressure boost and get pressure going the wrong direction. Some people have installed the check valve without the catch can and still get good results. Since mine is a street driver I want to be safe and install another filtration system so my intake manifold and heavy duty check valve doesn't plug Air only goes one way out of this system and that is into the intake manifold. I have 3 more check valve selling for $2.00. easy for high boost applications. Now why don't I just remove the PVC valve then? The PVC valve is calibrated for flow ratings. Thats why there is a spring and cost about $110 instead of my easy $2.00 part This is how I have my system set up. It works for me just fine. I don't get any gas smells plus my turbo, intake, and intercooler is clean. I can also run high boost on my PVC valve with out it failing on me. Now going onto this expensive $110 kit. I think it is shiny, crome and does everything that the $2.00 part does on the PVC side. However it also puts a check valve on the Breather side. What would this do though... When there is positive crank case (boost) it would let gasses leave, (off boost PVC valve open) it would block air going into the engine. There would be a vacuum at the pvc valve and no air going into the breathing side so what happens, the system has high vacuum and thats why you get the air wooshing in when you pull the dip stick. http://dsm.dejonpowerhouse.com/ Has the product and look how it is set up. |
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