Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Nope, I'm not sure if it would help on a fuel lab pump since they are brushless DC, they spin at a set RPM by design.

I'll take a look at his setup in the build thread. It's not slosh, I down sized the tank to only hold around 5 gallons and I run it close to full for just that reason.
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p.../FPproblem.png

Straight out of fuel, I looked at my logs and I have fuel pressure drop. This may also be why I fried a 2150 injector eariler this year.

The graph is 3rd gear, the last trace is the fuel pressure log, its super noisy. Look at the trend of the data, decreasing with RPM. Also ignore the scaling on the log, I downloaded this log with a fresh revision of AEM Pro and I didn't set my preferred settings as these are default.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

What about dual rails each with its own pump?

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

OMGZ 2 secs and 3rd is done. :drool:

I'll ask around/check out link too see what the big dogs are doing over there.

Looks like magnapump 4303 is popular or twin 044s

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Is the pump supposed to be able to support the fuel you are using or is it a bad pump? Fuel Lab products don't have the best track record from what I have seen on the dyno the last few years.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

You are running the fuel lab 42402? They rate the flow at 13.5v (they say it will support 1200hp @ 100psi), if it didn't matter the voltage you would think they would rate the flow at 12-16v. That is the operating range they give for the pump. I would give them a call, it might save a ton of time and hassle instead of trying to put a different pump in.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Mark you is famous!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3_oWZSub1k&&hd=1

EDIT: Tachyon, and Jrohner too!

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

The 4303 has very very similar performance to the 42402. My Fuelab was benched at 154 GPH @ 85psi and the tech from Magnafuel said that at 80-90 PSI to expect 150 GPH from the 4303. The 4303 dives off the efficiency spectrum at 65psi. The Weldon is at over 200GPH at 80 PSI.

This year I switched cams to the S3’s and some other little stuff and I could never get control of my AFR’s. More fuel for more power? The pump is not bad, it has worked fine until this last winter upgrades.

They are very finicky when you try to control them between high and low. I had one go bad when I was using the AEM to control it. So now I just flip a toggle switch to run it at max speed before a WOT run. They are brushless DC, but I’m assuming they implemented a brushless motor topology that has no position detection and the downfall is they can stall out during speed transitions, drawing lots of current. You need to fuse them at the exact value recommended by fuel lab for protect them in this event.

Have you seen anyone use Fuelab’s electronic FPR to control them? That is what fuelab recommended to me. Run a second large pump and have the FPR regulate the speed. It is an option that I’m considering. If I get crazy I could switch to M3 for fuel and have enough capacity.


I'm running E98, 30-35% more fuel required? I just verified with Fuelab, no BAP. The speed of the motor is set and controlled via a magnetic field changing, so the RPM/torque will not increase with a BAP. The 4303/weldon 4345a will work with a BAP. Too much stuff to consider right now! Lot’s of pros and cons to consider.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

No quote and reply about my idea? Q___Q

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Yep possible, but I would need a separate feed line, FPR, and return line. It would be like running 2 completely different systems. Lots of options. I could even cheap out and add an inline Walbro to get me over to the positive side of the fuel curve.

Also that old transmission has a chowed 4th at a minimum. It was an Evo 1-4 with a TRE spool and VCE clamp. At a minimum it needs 550.00 in parts from Jacks to fix it. I wouldn't refuse any reasonable offer:).

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

If you can throw an inline wally, that gets my vote.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Huh? Thats a joke right.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

I think an electric pump should be able to get you where you need to be but.

http://magnusmotorsports.com/product...el-pump-drive/

They make it fairly easy now.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

I liked the video even though I was "Out classed"

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Explain y it should be please

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

I have run a aeromotive Eliminator fuel pump for the last 2 years on e98 and no voltage controller. The end of this year my car made 50psi of boost and the a/f was right at 11.5-11.8:1 and I only have 1 set of FIC 2150's. My base fuel pressure is set to 45psi.

I have tested fuel pressure to over 100psi on just battery voltage and it pumps at least 3.5gpm at 0psi draining the fuel cell.

If I need more fuel pump I can hit it with a BAP and be fine.

I know MAP has tested the Eliminator/2150 combo to over 1000awhp with no BAP.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Any inline Wally would probably be a restriction at this level.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

x2, call Marco, he'll have your CC number is less than 3 minutes. :spin:

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

I ran one of those pumps and they suck to prime. If I remember correctly, Marco use to run compressed air into his fuel cell to push the fuel to the pump to get his car started. One hell of a pump when the car was running, but a pain in the ass to get it started every time. Unless you could find some sort of fuel check valve that wont be restrictive.

Also, when running a mechanical fuel pump, NHRA rules state you have to have a manual fuel shut off connected to your battery disconnect outside of the vehicle in case of crash/fire. Hassle in my eyes.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Is the fuel cell vented?

If not I'd bet that is why it drops!

If it is vented maybe the vent isn't big enough.

For what it's worth. I ran e85 and ran twin walbros with a boost a pump on them has the stock vent on a stock tank. Made 830 @DB never miss fired or showed it was out of fuel. Went to the track first pass I messed 3rd gear. So te next pass I get in 4th and the fucker is miss firing and showing its lean in the wide band so I lifted. So I pulled the log showed it ran the same boat we ran on the dyno so I turned it down 3 psi and did the same thin once I got in 4th. So then i turned it down again and changed plugs and the same result.

When I started I had about 5/8's of a tank and after the passes it was about 1/4 so I figured I'd add some fuel. Cracked the cap loose and I could hear it pulling air into the tank from just cracking the gas cap and it all made seance. the tank was being shrunk or collapsing or why ever he proper word is.

Left tHe gas cap off and boom no more missing and running the AFR it did on the dyno.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Thanks for everyone’s feedback, work has been crazy lately. My fuel cell vent is an an8 roll over valve, so a big vent. John I know you and MAP have had good luck with the eliminator pump.

These are my options listed in order of a preferred solution:

1. Weldon 4345A
2. BAP with an eliminator or 4303 Magnafuel
3. Fuel lab additional pump with their electronic regulator
4 .Mechanical pump
5. Bosch 44 or 255 wally in parallel

I’m such a nerd If you knew how much thought and effort I’m putting into this.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

I can definitely see the point of running just a single fuel pump. I have seen too many stories of people losing one pump and popping an engine because one of the two went out. It runs fine until high boost, then all hell breaks loose as it goes super lean.

I know when I was looking at what pump to put in my car I was looking at the A1000 and there were quite a few bad stories about it so I went with an 044 planning to add a second one later, but never got that far. The eliminator looks like a slightly bigger A1000, but I have no idea if they have any better parts inside.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Jay racing 044 pull less amps and flow more than the original Bosch 044.

Plus you have the V2 and it has a fuel safe or lean cut if one pump we're to fail.

Wait I know!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Since MAP sponsors you they should give you the pump or pumps you want for free!!!!!! :spin: :spin: :spin:

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

The a1000 and Eliminator look the same, the Eliminator is black and has a bigger inlet.

I know another guy in a mustang ran the Eliminator on the street with no voltage controller for 20,000 miles.

My pump is wired up on a 30amp relay and fuse with no issues.

I looked at the magnafuel pumps and the few I saw were limited on Max pressure to 80psi. With base fuel pressure of 45-50psi and 45-50psi of boost that's a 100psi of fuel pressure.

I figured if my Eliminator is not enough then a BAP will be installed.

And MAP will get you a great price on what ever route you go, maybe ask them for any other ideas.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

I had a good weekend, worked on the car on Saturday for about 8 hrs. I co-located all of my gauges in the fabricated instrument cluster.
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...216_191209.jpg

I’m going to cover up all of the old gauge location holes. I have not wired everything yet. About the wiring, I removed all of the unnecessary wiring that was just dead weight. I left all of the critical ECU functions and lighting wiring (headlights/parking, brake, turn signals, and reverse lights). I weighed everything after I was done removing it and it came up to 43 pounds!

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...216_191128.jpg
I also picked up a 7/8” tandem master cylinder to remove the power brake booster too, I don’t know what the booster weighs, but if anything it will clear up the engine bay. I'm kicking around the idea of having the engine bay painted too, since almost everything has been removed.

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...216_191153.jpg

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Nice, very impressive weight saving

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Yeah, I remember just getting rid of the ABS pump and wiring was an easy 50 lbs. Every bit makes a difference.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Nice progress. I'd say go for it, paint the engine bay. I was personally on the fence a lot lately about cleaning things up on my car, getting things coated, etc. And once they were done, there was no more question and I was so glad I did it!

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Paint it up FOSHOOO

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

43 pounds! Goddamn, I didn't relize you had that much more to rip out of this thing!

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Hell Yes!
I know the 1G's are horrible for wiring efficiencies; I was kind of shocked when I weighed everything out! Even more weight is going to come out of it. I haven’t even touched the doors yet, the factory crash beams are still there too! I cannot remember what the weight was the last time it was on the scale at BIR with me in it, but I know it was in the 27XX range and I’m about 210 with all the safety gear/helmet??? I should borrow someone's corner scales to find out for sure, but 43lbs so far is not bad!!!

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

I can't believe you can keep pulling more weight out of this thing, but I love it!

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Any estimate for how much weight you have pulled out of it this winter?

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

The door beams weigh a bit, but not that much. It was probably about 2lbs each. The black tar paper/sound deadening stuff on the floor was more than that. Not sure if you have tackled that yet or not.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

I remember Shep saying something back in the day about the power window assemblies weighing hardly anything more than the manual ones. Speedglass side windows would make a difference though.

There's a lot of inner structure around the b-pillars down where the ABS computer used to be. Not sure how much of that you can take out, but there's definitely some fat to trim there.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

I was looking around and no one actually publishes the actual weight of the door bracing, but from some of the banter and judging by material thickness it looks to be north of 10 lbs each. I'll weigh them when I remove them and publish it.

Yep most of the deadening material has been removed too, I still have some left on the fire wall to remove. I exposed it after I took the HVAC box out.


They are light, but I removed the factory harness and I'm not going to power the doors for window functions. Both crank assemblies are around 3 lbs! I'll check into the ABS stuff, good recommendation!

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

50 ish so far? The goal is the car into the 24XX range with out me in it. Should make it faster and easier on the drive train too.

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

I am quite positive it wasn't anything close to that. I took mine out years ago and I remember thinking that all the work was definitely not worth it. I would guess it was about 5lbs each. The metal wasn't that thick for them. I didn't fully remove them though, just cut them off at the ends so I didn't have to drill the spot welds and possibly mess up the door skin.

Doing this saves 20lbs per door (factory glass is still in)-
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/atta...7&d=1172175763

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Just got the passenger side door weight reduction done. I weighed the crash beam and it came to just a little over 12 lbs. I took out the electric window motor and it weighed as much as both mechanical crank setups combined. Not that they weigh a lot. I’ll post a pic as soon as photobuckets site starts working again. Drilling spot welds was easy, I just wrapped tape around a drill bit so it could not penetrate too far into the door. I used piano wire to break the adhesive bond between the crash beam and the door skin. Then an air body saw to remove the door metal and an angle grinder to cut the beam. It took around an hour and a half to get it all wrapped up. Not bad for that type of weight savings!
I also took the brake booster out, it was a little lighter than what I expected at around 8 lbs. I need to machine an adaptor bracket to fit up the other master cylinder I ordered.
So far so good!

Re: Mark's 1G Winter Projects
 

Picture of door work


http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...222_101045.jpg