Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Green Bay (I know, I know....)

The original idea was to use my car with the new setup I am currently putting together. However, Im not sure that is going to be ready in time. They want to do this before spring, as they obviously don't have nearly the free time then that they do in the winter. So, we are thinking about finding annother person to use for the dyno donkey. None of this is decided yet, but were trying to work everything out.

We plan to the intakes that did the best on the flow bench. Although it would be interesting to test all, thats a lot of passes on somebody's car. Also, we need to make sure that we can get our hands on whatever manifolds are to be tested.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Cool, good luck with it all.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Yup, but the industry is different now; profit margins are down among many other things. MAP was nice enough to donate a few hours of dyno time to me for a test I'm doing for the EvoM community (more info on this next week) but I doubt any vendor who didn't stand to profit from the test (or potential sales resulting from the test) would be willing to donate a day (or days) of dyno usage. If Beyond Redline is willing to the host the test I see no reason why their dyno can't be used in a fair, supervised, manner. No matter who hosts it there will be some nitpicker who finds a reason why the test was skewed or unfair if their favorite part didn't perform as well as they expected it to.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Kracka: Im honored.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

lol..made it into a signature!!!

-A. Swift

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Pending the date of the testing, I'd be willing to tune each setup as I am no longer in a shop. I would imagine the best way to benefit from this testing would be to have a car with monitoring equipment, a competent tuner, and a standalone with someone that knows how to use it properly.

What dyno equipment does beyond redline have?

I would be willing to sit in each car and not even look at the engine bay so I have no clue which manifold is which (I'd rather not know honestly).

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

They got that covered.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Sweet, well I can't wait to see the results :news:

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Beyond Redline has a good reputation with the WiDSM.org guys it seems. No doubt they would do a good job over there. Bit of a hike to take the manifolds, but not too bad. It will be interesting to see how the manifolds perform on an actual car as apposed to flow bench.

Only thing I can say about which mani's to test is this. Rather than just doing the ones that performed the best on the flow bench it may be wise to also do the most popular ones. How many cars are out there with a magnus for example?

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

I think Beyond redline did a good test somewhat last time, they used cars with diff setups to try and cover the HP ranges the only thing was the tunes from manifolds were way different at least on A/F so i dont think that was fair.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Greg, thanks for doing this, I got the info I needed. My cheapo Venom is pretty damn good for cylinder balance, which is what I'm primarily concerned about. And I disagree a bit on the strength of them though. Mine has a lot of 30-32psi dyno runs with zero issues. I'm also happy with the design of it, I see a bit of correlation in cylinder balance and small plenum volume. I've always favored the larger plenums, especially in a 2.4L application.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

I'm happy to hear you've had good results at that boost level. It seems to be a good part, the statement I made about the boost limit was soley based on some things I read a few years ago when I was looking at buying one. So if she's happy at 30psi, that's awesome!

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

With the higher boost just watch the welds on the plenum, this is where the most stress is. If the weld cracks any good TIG welder should be able to fix if no problem.

~John

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

How often do ya think people who construct intake manifolds heat treat them after all the welds are complete?

I would guess that most do not. DO YOU HEAR ME MAGNUS?!

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

That depends on the aluminum alloy and welding method used. I just inside outside weld the hole manifold to avoid any issues. Aluminum is tricky to weld, any pits or sharp corners are the places cracks will start to form. Welding both sides of the pieces ensures proper penetration. If welded properly the weld should be stronger then the base metal. Also using enough heat (amps) and welding rod are important. I will warranty the manifolds I produce to hold as much boost as you can put in there with a turbo, even if Brent Rau wants one, he can runs in 85 Psi without a worry of cracks.
Back on topic how is the page update going?

~John

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Actually aluminum welds are not as strong as the base metal, that is true for steel though. Aluminum degrades when welded, that is why the heat treatment is important. Most shops don't have enough experience with metallurgy and things like this get overlooked. Most manifolds are made of 6061 aluminum, which has a minimum tolerance of 40k psi, but when welded the tolerance drops to 24k psi. A T6 heat treatment will bring that back up some, but to get back to the original state it must be solution heat treated.

I do agree that aluminum is a PITA to weld, it is much harder than steel or stainless. Welding inside and out usually adds enough material that even at the lower strength it is fine.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Edit: I did some weld samples and found the 1/8" aluminum plate will crack and break before the weld will. I revert to my original statement that if you weld the aluminum properly it will be stronger then the base material.

~John

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Sorry guys. We actually have been nusy this week at ProKART, so I haven't been able to spend any time at my desk and finish the page update. Ill get it done asap!

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

I have the most up to date data online now. Still no pictures of the last few though.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

What are the R.E.E.E., or R.E.E.D., or R.E.E.F. prototypes? I'm assuming those are the ones Pushit2.0 made? You might want to edit your page to eliminate any confusion.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Whoops! Fixed it.

Yes, The R.E.E.F. is Pusit's manifold. REEF stands for Radiused Entry Equal Flow. He asked me to change its name.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Well, done on the Race Prototype Pushit! Perfect flow distribution and the highest cfm, looks to be a very nice manifold.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

I am working on prices right now. I am going to stay with 1 design fist most, but custom manifolds can be ordered upon request and will be priced accordingly. Thanks for looking.

~John

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Hello everyone,

My name is Tim and I am the sales/marketing representative from Beyond Redline Performance in Green Bay.

First and foremost I'd like to thank Greg and this community for including us in this testing process. We would like nothing more than for our product to be in an equal and unbiased test such as this. However as many of you have eluded to, the flow bench is only half the story.

Greg has already made mention of this, but we would like to host an intake manifold shoot out here at our dyno facility in the near future. We have an AWD Dynojet dynamo meter with dual eddy current brakes that was installed within the last 12 months. As some of you may or may not know Dynojet is the only dyno manufacturer who's testing results CANNOT be modified by changing certain variables. In other company's products roller weight and diameter can be altered by the owner/operator to skew resulting data. The only changes that can be made on a Dynojet product are reporting standards, eg: SAE, STD, STP, etc.

In order to be completely impartial and fair to the rest of the companies involved we would like a member to donate their vehicle for testing purposes. Ideally it would be in the 400-500 whp range, and have good reliable tuning capabilities such as AEM EMS or DSM/ECM Link. Also, we would like to invite anyone interested to attend the testing and witness any and all tuning changes that are made. We could also use some additional man power because changing intake manifolds can be time consuming and difficult.

If we can make everything work out, we would like to get this done sooner than later as we tend to get very busy the closer we get to the warmer months. Again, thanks for including us in this, and I look forward to further contributing to this forum and getting to know its members.

I can be reached vie email at: tim@beyondredline.com with any questions or reply here to this thread as I am keeping tabs on it.

Tim
Beyond Redline Performance

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

hope someone makes this. Sounds like a good thing to be a part of.

-A. Swift

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Do you have any specific dates in mind? Sounds like it could be a fun 2 day weekend trip if some of us wanted to head out there to help. I wouldn't mind helping, but I have quite the hectic schedule so I'd have to know when.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

After checking with the shop's schedule we would be looking at the weekend of 31st. I would think we could knock this out in one day starting early on Saturday. We would want the test car here on Friday the 30th so we could get it strapped down and any lingering issues figured out.

If people wanted to make the trip on Friday and stay for the test on Saturday let me know and I will do my best to arrange special pricing for accommodation's.

I'm exciting about this and hope other people are too.

Anyone willing to donate their car for a test mule?

Tim
Beyond Redline Performance

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Sorry I can't make it that weekend. If it was the following weekend (2/7) I'd be able to come and help turn a wrench. I'm sure you'll find some other volunteers though.

Good luck with the testing guys.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Damn, I just did a 3 day up in canada, this would of been sweet, but my dsm is on jackstands and I honestly have no clue when it will be out again.
Thanks for doing this.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Been a while since I have heard anything. Has anybody voluntered for the Dyno session at Beyond Redline?

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Might be worth it to hit up the guys on Widsm.org a lot of them are closer to Tim and he very well may have some customers who would meet the demands anyway. Almost certain they are a site sponsor over there as well.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Well, I have been contacted by a local shop, offering their dyno for the testing. Obviously, we need the IM's and a car, but if there is interest, maybe we can do this here!

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

I have no problem with testing the 2 manifolds I made, and I could help out with the swap fest.

~John

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

If it's local, I'd love to help! And depending on when, I'd consider donating my car as well.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

same here.

-A. Swift

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Swiftcheese your car would do well for this test.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

I think a DSMLink car with a 2G MAS would be best. A MAS car will automatically compensate fueling if there is more or less airflow and DSMLink has great knock control and datalogging.

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

It would be easy to setup and run on a link car, but I am sure there are people out there that would say "Well if the car had a stand alone it would make so much more power". At this point I would take what ever you can get your hands on.

~John

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Well FWIW, mine uses DSMLink and I run a 2G MAS, althought the MAS may have a few honeycombs removed. I'm sure you'll have plenty of volunteers. Just let me know.

Shane, your wifes car is also DSMLink and 2G MAS isn't it?

Re: SMIM Showdown! Lets figure this out once and for all!
 

Her's just has a chip, so it's not the best form of integrated tuning/datalogging.

I think Swifty's is too laggy and doesn't make the power it should for the boost, so it might not be the best setup if it has a head, motor, or turbo problem causing it.