Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Like I said, read a history book or two.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

The south's equivalent of the Declaration of Independence was called the Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union. It explains why they wanted to leave the Union. Have you read it? I have and its all about how they believe they have the right to keep slaves.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

I've done some more reading. It says this in Mississippi's declaration "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world".

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp

The Confederacy was about states rights in the same way that Mein Kampf was a book about a man with a vision. Both statements are true, yet they both disregard critical parts of the stories.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

So you're saying it's ok to be race based as long as you're not promoting slavery,... really, that's what you're gonna go with?

And while you're checking up on your history lesson, look into how many of the slave owners were black. And not all blacks were slaves.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/...es/greeley.htm

And also the civil war started because the north was taxing the south, but instead of using those funds in the south they were using it to build the north. The south didnt think that was right.

Also Lincoln didnt originally make slaves free he even sayed hed leave it alone if the south continued to pay taxes.
It wasnt till the north started loosing the war and recruitement was at almost a stand still that he decided to then free slaves if they served time in the military.
Its funny actually the movie "the patriot" actually put this notion in the movie but I never even noticed it before.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eman...n_Proclamation

Hell it was 2yrs after the war started the emancipation proclamation was given.

And it didnt even include all the slaves in the us. Only the 3 million in the states that succeeded not the 1 million in the north.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

What does it matter if there were black slave owners and that not all blacks were slaves? Whites have always been the majority in this country. There is a history in this country of some of the majority treating minorities as subhuman and unequal. In a majority rules kind of society, it's bound to happen. None of the race based groups you are mentioning except the Black Panthers are based any premise of marginalizing anyone else to achieve their goals.

You'll get to have your white race group whenever the white race starts to get treated as a minority.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Apparently you've never lived in Yuma, lolz.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Never lived in Yuma, but was stationed at Camp Pendleton in Cali for a few years. Plenty of Mexican folks there. Could get your windshield replaced for $50 just north of the border.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Makes no sense at all ^^^ ,........ And you are right when you say "history" because for the past FIVE (5) decades everybody has had the same access to an education, medical care, etc. and then some. Those who apply themselves have always succeeded, black, white, brown, doesn't matter.

Do you not realize that by just having most of those groups makes blacks out to be unequal and unable to stand on their own? Keep making minorities out to be victims and they'll never get ahead. And maybe that's the point in all of it,......

You want everybody treated equal, stop playing favorites based on race. Racism knows no color restrictions. Blacks can be, and are in most cases, more racist than whites because many have been taught at home, church, school that all white people are evil which is just not the case.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Anyone can be racist, I understand that.

Statistically, blacks are much poorer than whites in this country and the gap widens. If you believe all men are created equal as our founding fathers did, what is your explanation for that?

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

This doesnt apply to all but most and this isnt blacks only around here whites in my option are more fucked up then the rest - poor parenting(this is key), poor role models, lack of discipline, lack of respect for everything(generalizing) especially laws, lack of effort, cry babies thinking they deserve handouts, and the biggest one of all a government that treats them as infants, by basically providing every need for free.

In my state you actually get paid more collecting unemployment then you do minimim wage. on average here the person collecting unemployment and medicare is equipment to a person making $16/hr.

You get free food, free housing(includes electric/gas), free medical, free cell phones, free education (2yrs free tech college classes) Gas money, just off the top of my head.

We did a layoff a few years back and moved our business to Mexico where I was flown down for a month to teach them how to do my job.
We had the option to get moved into other departments and 50% of the employees here took the layoff, when i asked people why , response was they got paid more doing so and a lot wantes to go back to school for free. And the sad part is they actually teach people the loop holes here so that they can live off the government.
Most churches here offer classes to there congregation

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

And granted the stuff thr government provides isn't the best looking, but around here where almost everyone lives in a trailer home no one cares. Its completely accepted vs frowned apon.

I can think of only one trailer home park in minnesota I ever saw in the 11yrs I lived there. And that was edge of apple valley and Rosemont.

I probably pass 15 parks on my way to work and there is countless trailers not in parks on my way to work. Amd most are actually occupied by whites in this area

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Not anymore. Maybe the majority though history, but I'm alive now. I don't have any control over any ancestors, or yours, or anyone elses. If I even dare call myself "white", I get shit on. Fuck you political correctness and equal opportunity.

I am pretty certain that if all ethnic groups would just stop bringing up history and racism to our children, stop drawing these stupid lines, they could live in a world where no racism exists. But thanks to the KKK, NAACP, Black Panthers, all of the other "my race is the best and worst because of *", that isn't a world we live in.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Statistically, blacks are much poorer than whites because of their upbringing. Put anyone in a situation where survival is greater than education.

All men and women (you forgot those X chromosomes) are created equal. We all come out the same way.

These young minds are influenced by their parents, their society, etc. Like I said, remove the influence from parents and those higher up the family tree... All this stupid shit goes away.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Just throwing this in here for kicks and giggles. Good ol misunderstanding. http://www.kare11.com/story/news/201...ding/30181171/

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

The thing is, we are born into our place in the world BECAUSE of history. Because of our ancestors who worked through the industrial revolution, we live in a world with automobile, skyscrapers, the internet, and all other kinds of amazing shit.

The bad comes with the good. We reap the rewards for our ancestors hard work and innovations, but we must also pay the price for their fuck ups. I can't see how things could be any other way. Racism doesn't just go away. It's learned through the generations. It will hopefully be unlearned through generations, nothing happens overnight.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_a..._United_States

White Americans are the racial majority, with a 77.7% share of the U.S. population. Hispanic and Latino Americans amount to 17.1% of the population, making up the largest minority. African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to 13.2% of the population.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Whites put blacks at a disadvantage - Through centuries of discrimination. Generational wealth doesn't exist for blacks like it does for whites. A person is much more likely to complete a college degree if their parents did. If parents aren't very well educated, their kids are likely to follow in their paths.

How do you remove the influence from the parents? Like I mentioned above. We are products of our history.

I believe doing things like removing the Confederate flag send at least some small message to blacks who feel like whites are keeping them down - that things that concern them matter.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

It's 2015. Nobody alive anymore was a slave from the 1800's. I wasn't alive back then, but I can only imagine it's a night and day difference from them until now. Millionaires, Billionaires, CEO's, etc come in all colors now. The majority voted in a black president, twice.

Forgive but don't forget, that's how you prevent repeating past mistakes, and focus on just moving forward. I agree with Vicious's comment that the only way to truly move forward with equality is to truly treat all as being created equal. Countering racism from previous generations long ago, with an opposite form of racism today, just doesn't seem like a big picture approach if the end goal is equality.

When I lived in Yuma for 3 years, I was definitely a minority for those 3 years. It has to be like 90% Mexican there. Didn't really matter to me. When I walked into a restaurant, I just busted out some high school grade Spanish and ordered up some Carne Asada and life was good! I remember having dinner with my g/f's family, her parents didn't speak English at all. We all just spoke Spanish, ate burritos, and I understood maybe 1% of it all, was all good. My year in Japan, several months in Spain and Korea, same deal. Just go with the flow, treat everyone equally and with respect, things seem to work out. Run into a few bad apples along the way, whatever that'll always be the case, they don't represent the majority so just move on.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

^ What's your opinion on the Confederate flag? Is removing it considered reverse racism in your opinion?

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

There is no such thing as "reverse" racism,..... you're either racist or you're not.

Here's some additional links and info about the Confederate Flag, the Civil War and slavery,...

http://www.rulen.com/myths/
http://www.rulen.com/educate/

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

To be honest, I really don't have an opinion on the Confederate Flag issue. Doesn't really mean anything to me so don't really feel the need to form an opinion one way or another on it.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Thanks english grammar nazi! lol - Let's call it racism then.

I don't even know what to say about your sources there. When you post baseless information like that, I almost think you're joking. Do you genuinely believe those links provide any useful information?

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

"reverse racism" that term cracks me up.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

I never used the term reverse racism, I said an "opposite form of racism", and all I meant by that was fighting racism, with racism just in the exact opposite way.

E.G. Say a group was oppressed based on their race. Then "fix it" by creating special exceptions for that group based on race. In the name of equality.

That's what I meant by countering racism with an opposite form of racism.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

^
I used the term. Now I get punished for it. lol

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Damn ricer.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

I fully agree with viscious. And just like I posted. I dont hold hatred to the english for enslaving the irish because its not taught in history openly which allowed it to just go away... much faster then if you constantly bring it up.

Hell my daughter lasted had to learn the language of the slaves. And spent the entire "black history" month focused on slavery.

So tell me how are we letting this subject go? How are we not teaching our children hatred and not to be racist (she's 9) and whites are definetely the minority in my area.
Out of 116 people here at work im 1 of 15 in the entire plant.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

^ Slavery is part of history and it needs to be taught in school. It's important to learn history so we don't repeat the mistakes of the past.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

So the confederate battle flag is not part of history? It doesn't mean anything to me, but i'm sure some that live in the south still care what it stands for maybe? Today people just complain about something until others get annoyed enough to change it.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Yes, it's a part of history. Nobody's taking it out of history, just the South Carolina state capitol.

The Confederate flag is part of history. It's not part of the current government, which is why it doesn't belong at the capitol.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

LoL

Part joke, part thought provoking. There's so much misinformation on both sides of the discussion that it's hard to know what is accurate vs. the tactics of an agenda to rewrite history. But it does make people open their minds to think and research for themselves.

On this page are many good points, take them for what you believe them to be worth.
http://www.rulen.com/history/

Let it be known that the Confederate flag is an honored symbol of a portion of our national history. It in no way reflects slavery, bigotry or hatred.

Many revisionists and spin doctors will spread the misconception of the war of 1861-1865 as being that it was fought over slavery. NOT TRUE...
In actuality, what these revisionists of true history are doing started back in the early 1960's and is referred to amongst the people that know true history, as the "Second Reconstruction". Trying to rewrite and destroy all semblance, vestiges and heritage of a Southern Nation. It is a distorted and perverse legacy of what was once the civil rights movement.
But, it has became rabid and venomous, and has an agenda to persuade you to forget about real history at any price. Including the mockery and altering of history. (Doesn't sound like what's going on today?)
Anyway, to get back to the historic factor involved, the South fought for Southern Independence and to repel Northern oppression and aggressions. The North fought for monetary gain and financial superiority. Plain and simple. Be very clear about that!!!!
I have been, and still am, a student of history through many years of education, research and archeology. I have direct family lineage to some of the very first settlers in the "new world", as well as being descended from veterans of the Revolutionary War and War of 1812.
Now then, the kicker...I also have direct blood ancestors that fought for the Union army as well as having Confederate ancestors that fought for the South during the years of 1861-1865. I have no bias what-so-ever as far as the so called "civil war".
And I will assure you that I have never owned a slave in my life, nor has any of my relatives. I can hear the cries of " he's just an unreconstructed Rebel" or "he's just a Neo-Confederate" flying freely.
Call me what you will, but I am simply an honest & accurate historian as well as an American Patriot. Someone not afraid of the truth nor afraid to stand up for actual history and heritage.
My only attempt in writing this essay is to tell the whole story, and to let the interested parties see what has been kept from them. Something the revisionists and "spin doctors" will never tell you!!!!
* * * THE FIRST CASUALTY IN WAR IS TRUTH * * *

Read sections 4, 5 and 6 of that page for some different insight. In fact read the whole page.

Can I vouch for the author, no. Can you discredit the author because I can't vouch for him, no you can't. Do your own research.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

So you think that if we remove the topic of slavery from schools. Slavery will return?

Im all for history, how ever if we are going to dedicate a month for black history(which I think is completely obsered) why not focus on all the positive contributions blacks have made , why focus (at least here, they focus on the negatives? Its like they want people to hate each other)

I have no problems putting the history of all people into schools, but just put it in, with the time lines you are teaching about when it pertains, there is no need to dedicate a month every year of a childs life to specifically learn about one topic. It just seems so redundant. It was slavery last year and it was slavery this year.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Exactly. Teach what happened, how terrible it was. But there is no need to demonize white people, which is exactly what is taught. That doesn't do good for anyone, just fans the flames. I had a professor once tell my class that minorities are INCAPABLE of being racist. What a load of shit.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

And its not just south carolina. Several other states took it down as well but south carolina was just the point of focus due to the idiot in Charleston that happened to have a confederate in his house when police searched it. And then it blew up from there as the media made it a focal point, which turned it people jumping on the band wagon.
Thing is this is the south confederate flags are everywhere

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

I read through that page and from my research, it appears to me that he is the one revising history. Read through South Carolina's declaration of secession. There is no spin there as it's straight from the horses mouth.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

It's boring as hell, but it contains the reasons for secession. About half way through they'll start giving specific reasons for withdrawing from the Union.

This is just one paragraph, but it shows that the subject of slavery is in there.

"A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction."

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

There is no reason anyone cant change there lives. It is the person themselves that have to do something about it. It has nothing to do about generations.
And I will use my own family as an example.
My father grew up in Kansas in a 1 room house. Made of wood scraps collected from sruff laying around.
He decided he never wanted to live this way ever again. And put all his effort into school in a place where school was 2ndary to farming. He graduated from MIT. And went to work for NASA, was a programmer for IBM for a while, when he retired he had saved just over 3 million dollars. And it only took 1 generation to change. Problem is most people are to selfish as parents to sacrifice there lives for the betterment of there family. Used to be everyone did this. But anymore

There is no reason anyone cant do anything , they just have to apply themselves.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Crazy person shoots up a church and the flag gets blamed,...... and it only got blamed by an agenda, nothing more,....

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

I haven't had the experience of any teacher demonizing whites for slavery.

I wonder if your professor was trying to make a point, but used the wrong words. Obviously any person of any color can be racist. But as a whole it isn't possible, at least in a true democracy, for the majority race to be oppressed by a minority race. A minority race can be oppressed by the majority race, however.

Re: Confederate flag, yes or no?
 

Issue is its not a specific minority race, its all the minorities combined that out number the majority and they are all working together for the first time.

Making the actual majority, a minority