Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I haven't tested it yet. I'm not in a hurry since I don't have the funds for a retune anyway. I need to sell some stuff.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Went out to test the fuel system this afternoon.

http://blainegarrett.com/files/2009/...at_arrival.jpg

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

oh god. wtf. I can officially sympathize with you, and the ongoing bullshit that is this hobby :) What are the new ideas on the drawing board?

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

This fuel system journey is painful to watch. It could be one of the most expensive series of failures I've seen.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

A few possibilities here:

1) My Bosch 044 is a lemon.
2) A Bosch 044 on its own can barely do 400whp @DB.

I'm a bit disinclined to waste another $200 on an 044 if it isn't adequate.

Anyone heard anything bad about Magnafuel pumps? The 4301 is obviously overkill but it's $15 more than the 4302 so I don't see a point in it.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRF-MP-4301/

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

The annoying thing is that I've had a lot of expert opinions along the way. I've kinda given up on them now. LJ gets a +1 for his surge tank probably not being the problem. It was a good idea to replace all those line with braided, E85-safe lines anyway. The new tank itself was 'only' another $200.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

The 044 is a tried and true pump. It supports an easy 600whp, and people have pushed 700+whp with a very efficient setup. I personally have supported 584whp on an nsx tuned by Shane(backed up in Chicago with 560whp on a stingy Mustang dyno in Chicago). If it's the pump, you have a lemon, otherwise it shouldn't be your issue.

Edit: I'd be willing to lend my brain to help you diagnose the issue if you want to stop by some time. I just can't watch this fuel system situation any longer.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

On E85 or pump? When used inline with the in-tank pump or on its own, replacing the pump in the tank?

That's where things get tricky. Inline pumps flow more since they have fuel pushed to them rather than having to waste energy sucking it. E85 also needs 30%+ more fuel.

I've done a lot of Internet searching this last week and opinions vary a great deal. The most solid data I've seen is a guy that did 730whp on pump with a 044 that replaced his in-tank. That's comparable to what I'm doing (except my fuel tank is a small surge tank).

730 * .70 = 511.

Shane's dyno is about 12-13% lower than a typical Dynojet.

511 * .88 = 450.

That's still less than I'm getting by a meaningful margin. The problem is that I don't want to get stuck with TWO 044's that are worthless to me. I wonder if anyone has an 044 that they could lend me for a couple days.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

This.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

The symptoms are:
1) Run Bosch off of car's relay and it works fine up to current power level, car will hit 68psi as you'd expect with 25psi boost and 43 base.
2) Run pump off of car battery (using a relay) and it'll max at 55-60psi.
3) Run pump on BAP on the car or battery and it maxes in the low 50's psi.

The car's relay runs it at 9volts or so in low load situations so I'm guessing that the hotter the pump gets (from voltage) the worse that it works.

I've pondered it being a boost issue with the vacuum line to the fpr, but it works in the #1 configuration so that would seem to rule it out.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

and the FPR isn't torn/bad?

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Buy some dynamite.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I hope not. I put in an Aeromotive unit a few months ago as a part of troubleshooting this.

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...02010/afpr.jpg

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Well, I am saying, was it replaced while trying to fix other shit too? You might wanna swap it out, and see if that makes a difference. Sometimes, changing 6 things at once, then having an issue doesn't help, because you don't know the effect each of those 6 items had..I wasn't sure if the FPR was swapped out, while you swapped your injectors, or messed with the pump wiring, or something else..who knows.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

This issue give me a headache, I'm sorry for you. But 044 is plenty of fuel for 400whp at DB, shit a single 255hp will do 400 on E85 I believe.

I can't imagine DB hasn't just said give us the car, give us sometime.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Note to self: more insurance coverage.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I've been testing things one at a time, which is why I've been working on this for like 5 months now. The stock fpr had the same symptoms. The big afpr does allow me to run the 044 at battery voltage at idle, which the stocker would not.

The car is already 400 @DB. I want the rest that is in it. Maybe 450. Who knows.

Shane burned a lot of time troubleshooting the Full Blown hanger problems that I had prior to Full Blown installing the first surge tank. I'm not going to ask for a ton more charity and I can't afford to pay for it right now.

I'll have to keep plugging away at it, methodically, doing things to the best of my knowledge and with what money I've got. There's nothing else I can do.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I'd like to help you if possible, let me know I'm usually around since I don't have a job.

I'd say shove a 255 or 044 inline.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Obviously not related to your fuel issue, but put a zip-tie on your BOV. I've seen quite a few vacuum lines blow off the BOV recently for whatever reason.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

The 044 should be more than enough to get over 450 @ DB on corn unless the evo x fuel system is a lot crazier than a dsm. I know all sorts of DSM that max out a high pressure 255 pump @ 450awhp on DB's dyno. I've made 520 with more fuel left with just 255 and a bap.

It kind of sounds like a wiring problem to me. I wish you luck, you deserve a fuel system that works after spending on that money.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Every vacuum connection on the car is zip tied. I have an in-car fuel pressure gauge so that's an issue I'd notice right away. Without the fpr hose you'd be below 40psi at idle.

That's something that I've spent time on since it doesn't cost anything. I have both pumps running off of Bosch relays with power right from the battery. Since the X battery is in the trunk, we're talking a couple feet from the 044 right now.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Suck man...so basically the new tank and redoing the lines didn't do anything?

I think trying a new 044 is a good idea....something has to be a miss. You have replaced everything essentially.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Hey what if your feed line (or the return line for that matter) is kinked or clogged somewhere? I think you had mentioned this being a possibility a while ago, just re-bringing it up. Get the car up in the air and inspect those suckers.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Like I said, obviously not related to your fuel issue, but in the picture you can very clearly see the BOV vacuum line is not secured on the nipple. I never said anything about your FPR.

*edit*
Also...http://www.mitsustyle.com/forums/sho...&postcount=260

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

This was on pump, and in the tank as a replacement.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I'll take another look the next time I'm down there. The nipple on that particular BOV is gigantic and it's tough to get the line on it (which also makes it unlikely to come off).

I just replaced all of the lines on Friday when the surge tank was installed--nearly 35 feet of braided hose (cha-ching).

The only lines I had wondered about were the hard lines from the fuel tank area up to the engine bay. Obviously that's improbable but we did find a fair bit of that black goop on the injectors at one point.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Just got back from a brainstorming session with speedfreak (Momin). It was fascinating and led down a path that I hadn't considered.

The X's battery is in the trunk. I figured, 'great', that means I can just hook my fuel pumps up to the battery and it's a nice short cable run. The flaw in that thinking is that when a car is running the power doesn't come from the battery -- it comes from the alternator in the engine bay. Doh!

My next step is going to be to wire my fuel pumps up car stereo-style. I'll run a 4ga from the engine bay to the trunk and use power and ground distribution blocks for the devices related to fuel pumps.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

humm. Not to rain on your parade but when the car is running you should have an even system voltage (about 14.7V) even to the batt. in the trunk, right?

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I've owned quite a few cars over the years and they were all 13.8v when the alternator is working.

There are a lot of smart guys on Style and I don't know most of you. Momin ran a shop for a decade and was once Shane's employer so I think it's worth testing that theory. Worst that could happen is that I end up with some baller pump wiring.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I'm at 14.1 at idle

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

So you have a bad voltage regulator, want a medal? I've installed an upgraded car stereo in every car that I've owned before the Evo, including the BMW. Every single one of them was 13.8v.

There are lots of things about cars that I don't know shit about but I'm pretty good with stereos and wiring.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Either way, you will end up with some baller wiring. A new alt should produce anywhere from 13.7 to 14.7v (I test on average 2 a day) but it wont matter how much it is putting out if it's not getting to the pump. I see the thought.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Alright bro, I'll take your word for it. I've owned six cars and they were all different brands, every one of them read 13.8 and I've obviously owned quite a few multimeters over the years. Maybe it depends on where you measure it from.

I'd urinate on my trunk if I thought it'd fix my fueling problem.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Just testing theories here guys. At this point most everything else has been tried with no success. And a few things he mentioned led me to think that getting power closer to the Alt may be worth a shot. That and I'm not sold on the grounds being used, but we'll see how this all goes then go from there.

BTW, he mentioned late in our conversation that Buschur instructs to get power from the engine bay for his fuel pump install, coincidence? Maybe not.

If this doesn't work, then it's time to borrow a Bosch 044 from someone local to test. If nobody else has one freely available, I'll take mine out of my gsx and let him borrow it.

One thing at a time..

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I'm going to give another +1 to the 13.8 to 14.7 range being fine. I test a few per week, and our test bench passes everything inside that range.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I can also confirm that issue, as I had fuel issues on the dyno this last session, before rewiring my pumps to get power straight from the battery in the trunk. What is Gate's doing? Who else is at these power levels?

Talk to teheodi on here..he's got a bosch 044, unless it was stolen from someone else.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Jesus Lomker, cool your ego when someone mentions something different then your opinion. You say it like it's fact, but it's not. Just try your theory, it seems very unlikely considerig how the BAP made it act before. Re-do your ground just to be sure to begin with.

A lot of these people have done plenty of work with batteries I'm sure. You've owned 6 cars, in the famous words of yourself, want a medal? I worked on everything that has to do with voltage in a car for most of my working life, about 5 years combined. And I would say I see most cars average 13.5-14.2 like it's nothing. Maybe get a more sensitive multimeter?

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Wiring isn't glamorous enough to discussed in magazines so I have no idea what Gates does.

You have your pumps right on the battery in the trunk? That's what I have now. What was your setup before?

Like speedfreak mentioned, Buschur has people tap up in the engine bay for his double-pump kit. BlaqOPs doesn't really offer advice but I tapped the positive feed to the fuse box under the dash when I put that in.

The ground I am currently using for the Bosch is about an inch from the battery's ground.

I get sick of typing all this crap since it's almost too much to say, much less type. Suffice to say the pump works 'better' off of the positive feed from the engine bay (the car's relay) than it does from the battery, which is a part of the thinking with running a new positive from the engine bay power terminals (closer to the alternator).

Yeah, sorry guys. I'm burned out on this.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Good luck...I'd love to see one of these fixes you're trying solve the problem!

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

x2 with 311, I was providing more info incase you were worried about any fluctuation.

I was not aware I was dealing with an electronics expert.