Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Did a couple pulls this morning and I'm not getting much more than 50psi out of the Bosch. It was running 70+ without an issue at the track on Monday.

I guess the simplest test would be to hot-wire the pump tonight, long enough for a test drive. If it works fine then I'll remove all of Full Blown's wiring work and re-do it. It'd be better to use larger gauge wiring with the BAP in the mix, anyway.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

If my fuel system holds up the Evo Gods must have forgiven me, lol.

I can't believe its still giving you problems.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Yeah, well. The NAV is totally dead now as well. The only reason that's annoying is that the MMCS sets its clock using GPS and provides no other way to do so. I'll look into that at some point but it never rises high enough on the to-do list.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Hot wiring direct to battery appears to have solved the issue with the Bosch--something is wrong with the relay circuit that Full Blown put in. My guess is the ground...they used the ground on the in-tank hanger and I've been suspicious of it for a while.

I'm just going to wire in a new relay tonight using 10ga to the battery & ground.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Sweet man! Progress, I am glad you are figuring more shit out. You will soon be the Evo X fuel master!

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Slow and steady is how I progress at everything in life. I envy people that have natural talent for things but that's not me. If something captures my interest for long enough, I tend to pass those people by. Time will tell if this hobby is one of those. The fascination has lasted longer than I expected.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I heard slow and steady wins the race ;)

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Looks like the relay re-wire solved that issue. Now I just need to get an appointment with Shane to check it out. He's obviously pretty busy `cause he didn't reply to my email today.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Go up there, I just got back two mins ago, him and Danny and Alex are still there. They are prepping for this weekend :) Shane will be there all night, he has to put his motor in his wife's 1G that they plan to race this weekend.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Jesus Christ

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I know, that car is in pieces, lol. Jim is going to help him out though. I guess its not too much more to put back together but still. The s2000 is still on the dyno, they are trying to finish that still, lol.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I'm pretty unhappy with the quality of the Bosch-style relays that I've been using on my fuel pumps. The one that I'd gotten from Full Blown decided to shut off my pump waiting at a stoplight here in Eagan. I'm standing out there in traffic, hot-wiring my fuel pump. lulz. Damn thing tested fine when I got to the office.

I have an order in for a handful of relays but it takes about a week to get them from these electronics outfits. The $2 ones will literally come apart in your hand. I ordered some $3 ones so we'll see how that goes. :)

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I have a new theory. I think using a -6an gravity feed out of the bottom of the surge tank is inadequate. The Bosch is basically sucking the fuel out of that 'straw' since there is very little pressure on the fuel in the surge tank. -6an is plenty for my power level on a pressure line but there is no pressure here...

I shot an email to Full Blown. I think we should lop that -6an fitting off the bottom of the tank and run a -10an to the Bosch instead.

The small line size combined with two 90 degree fittings may just be too much. Here's a photo to show what it looks like:

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a.../surgetank.jpg

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

LOL, i think you might be reaching with this setup now, but who knows...I am guessing your problems will be something silly like that. I vote dump it for a full fuel cell system next spring.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I briefly looked into that but there are some pretty big downsides. The large capacity ones will mess up your center of gravity unless you cut out the floor of the trunk and mount it there. The foam inside of them won't withstand being in E85 all of the time...I'd have to switch to pump.

The only serious consideration right now is a Sard surge tank. It's a 5ltr tank that the Bosch (or dual 255's) could sit inside and that would eliminate the gravity feed--it's basically a secondary gas tank.

http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforu...8092009973.jpg

I have spent the last 4 days doing street pulls and experimenting with different wiring configurations on the pumps, including the use of the BAP. Basically the more power I give the Bosch the less fuel pressure I end up with. The only sensible explanation is that fuel isn't getting to it steadily enough.

Switching back to pump is quickly moving up the list of options. With 30% less flow my current setup may very well be adequate for a BP93 tune.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Spent a bunch of time looking at surge tanks. I found a very nice looking one on Ebay, of all places. A performance shop out of Australia makes them. I'm going to go take some measurements in the trunk. This one is 2.5ltrs and I think the subwoofer would have to go.

http://www.furiousperformance.com.au...T12-25-AN4.jpg
http://www.furiousperformance.com.au...roducts_id=531

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

what if you were to just bypass the surge tank to test if the 6an is the problem? Run the bosch pump right in line with the 255. If easily done would tell you if that is the problem.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I know that 6an when pressurized would be fine--surge tanks have no pressure on the fuel so the pump has to suck and depend on gravity. Inline pumps aren't great at sucking like that.

The Full Blown hanger is also not 100% in my car as far as fuel pickup goes. The surge tank fixed that issue but now the flow appears limited to 400ish at DB.

I have the tank from Australia on the way. FB had put in fuel hose that isn't E85 rated so I'm just gonna rip it all out. The Bosch will be directly attached to the tank by 10an so that should be that.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Oh geez....switching setups again :( I honestly feel bad for you now...this is getting ridiculous.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Ouch I hope that will end it for you, then on to making more power!

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

How much power are you making? These fuel setups seem ridiculously over kill.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I haven't posted but I was just thinking the same thing; sure you are auto x'ing the car so I understand the fuel setup to some degree. But holy fuck it seems like you either have really bad ass luck or you are way over thinking your setup. Just from briefly over viewing your setup unless you are making 600whp+ your fuel setup is crazy, its cool and probably looks good but do you really need to do all this for what you use the car for? Maybe the X's are different, if so excuse my ignorance.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

He knows all this. Something is wrong and he has been through a few different setups to try to correct it.

X's are different in the way that they have fuel pickup problems even in stock form.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Ahh got ya, I figured something had to be messed up with X's fuel pickup because on the 8's and 9's you here nothing of these issues.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Agreed. I had never heard of a BAP when I started down the path and I painted myself into corners as I went. Evo X's do need surge tanks when driven hard on road courses so I'm sticking with that approach. The FB in tank hanger was a train wreck for me but live and learn.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Everything but the surge tank arrived today. -10an is gigantic! lol.

I got an email from LJ today and he's skeptical about my theory on the problem. I guess we'll see.

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a.../fuelparts.jpg

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

As far as fuel pumps having to "suck" fuel from a low/no pressure tank, I think that isn't a problem. My pump is in the factory location, on top of the tank (external), and it sucks from the stock feed tube that goes through the top of the tank to a pickup at the bottom. Inside there are some baffles, as my car was intended for road racing, and apparently the X was not, lol. But seriously, It has to suck up through a small tube, and hasn't had any problems like you are describing.

I don't know what will fix it for you in the end, and I wish you luck, but if I were to take a crack at it, I'd simplify it.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Can't make it simpler unless you're saying to go back to stock (a setup that doesn't work well for road course to begin with). A surge tank setup needs two pumps and a tank. All I'm doing at this point is making the lines E85-safe and relocating the inline pump.

The only stock components remaining are the main tank and hard lines. Not sure what I'd do other than replace the hard lines or wonder if the Bosch was bad from the start.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Wouldn't a 1/2 tank or more in the stock fuel tank be enough to solve all fuel starvation issues in a hard corner? I'm going to agree with my liberal friend above and say that simplification is what's needed here.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

That's always the first thing that I suggest when someone posts about starvation issues on the national forums. At least half of them say that fuel level doesn't matter for their cars.

Here's one from yesterday.
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39452

I'm starting to wonder if some people that complain about 'ignition' issues on the X aren't actually having a fueling issue...they're just making an assumption based on other cars that they've owned.

---
My current problem isn't fuel starvation, though. It simply isn't getting enough fuel to the motor to support higher power levels. I've thought about switching back to pump since it requires 30% less flow.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Usually when you are road racing you try to keep the tank as full as possible anyways though.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

What is your buddy Gates doing? Fuel cell?

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I would think if those lines don't fix your issue it would have to be one of the pumps. Good luck man.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

1gal surge tank with dual 255's off of it. The pumps are closely attached to the tank by hard lines whereas my Bosch is perhaps 9" away by hose and two 90deg fittings.

I'm planning to do a one-minute flow test on each of the pumps when I install the new setup.

If there is another chapter in this saga then it'll involve a new 044, probably one of those new Jays Racing knock-offs that flows a little more.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

The 2.5ltr surge tank arrived from Australia. Need to drop Shawn a line and see when I can swing by for the install.

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...urgetank-1.jpg

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

May the force be with you on this endeavor, lol.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

If this doesn't work call NASA and see what they use to launch shuttles into space. :)

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Who needs hp when you have a solid rocket booster?? :)

Sounds like I'm putting this in on Friday night.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Got `er done. Only took twice as long as I thought. Thanks Shawn!

http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...surgetank2.jpg

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Well, does it seem like this worked yet or do you not know yet?