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MitsuStyle (http://www.mitsustyle.com/forums/index.php)
-   Project Talk (http://www.mitsustyle.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog (http://www.mitsustyle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25695)

Murlo26 03-23-2011 07:58 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Well testing is all done.

I think Jordan said he'd put the graphs together tomorrow but it was pretty interesting to say the least.

The most interesting part of the manifold that is staying on my car was that my track tune which dyno'd last october at 570whp/455wtq made 562whp/465wtq...but last time it was at like 37psi and this time was at like 32psi...5 psi less and close to the same power and more torque...

Once the tunes are tweaked I think this manifold should be worth some solid gains!

Kracka 03-23-2011 08:16 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Damn you, more info! MAP long-runner?

Murlo26 03-23-2011 09:53 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracka (Post 377869)
Damn you, more info! MAP long-runner?
Yes, I currently have the MAP long runner on there.

We tested 4 total...I will let Chris release some results tomorrow on the dyno graphs...but I guess if anyone has questions I will answer them. I don't think they have anything to hide.

turbotalon1g 03-24-2011 10:28 AM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
In for long runner info.

Murlo26 03-24-2011 11:37 AM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Here is a little info....it's an overlay of boost logs from my car. One is from last October on the stock ported mani, one is from last night with the long runner. Both are my "track tune". The numbers should be pretty close as the baselines were spot on for my regular tune with the stock mani this week vs last october (within 1hp).

Numbers for stock ported were - 564whp/464wtq.
Numbers for long runner were - 562whp/465wtq.

So basically the same damn numbers at way way less boost...next step...bring the boost back up :)

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...BoostPlots.jpg

Kracka 03-24-2011 11:38 AM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
LOL

So how did the MAP long-runner compare vs. the FiD and MAP short-runner?

Murlo26 03-24-2011 11:47 AM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
I could post boost plots of all of them if you want. I don't have all the dyno graphs yet though so it will be tough to say numbers wise.

The FID did provide the least amount of gain over any of the manifolds on the normal tune. But boost was a tad lower. still not near as low as the long runner though.

scheides 03-24-2011 11:50 AM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
FWIW when we were tuning my car on the first pull made almost the exact same power as it did last summer, ~340whp, but at only 20psi vs the 28psi it ran last summer. When we turned the boost back up the car hit 400, but with more taper i.e. more to go.

High hopes for this retune are certainly worth having!

Murlo26 03-24-2011 11:53 AM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
So basically exactly what I am seeing ;)

I might be trying your MBC/3 port setup to reduce wastegate duty cycle up top to see if we can get more outta it. I asked Shane what he thought was the best option, MBC, Forge wga (which i know he hates, but has a 25psi spring) or cranking down my blouch one more on the preload as it has lots of thread for preloading.

Murlo26 03-24-2011 01:41 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
well here are general spool numbers. I don't have the numbers to go with each of these runs so its hard to say anything conclusively, but here are the rough spool numbers. (I kinda chose them at random from the groups of runs).

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...ostComparo.jpg

Kracka 03-24-2011 01:49 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Any pics of this MAP prototype? When you refer to long-runner, that is Scheides' old one, right?

Murlo26 03-24-2011 01:52 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracka (Post 377992)
Any pics of this MAP prototype? When you refer to long-runner, that is Scheides' old one, right?
Correct.

No pics, I suppose I should've taken a few, but the prototype one might be a one off so I didn't want to take any pictures. I am sure Chris could get you a few pics though.

Those are .5 psi tick marks too on the graph, not 1psi...so you can see that both MAP longer runner type designs were quite a bit lower on spool up.

v8klla 03-24-2011 01:58 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
By lower are you referring to the initial boost spike? It appears that boost on both MAP long runner manifolds was lower throughout. Numbers coming soon!

Matt D. 03-24-2011 01:59 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
These manifold comparisons are getting old. You tune for the setup, not for the part. You could have two identically built cars and the tunes between them will be anything but identical. It might be apples to apples, but comparing Red Delicious to Granny Smith is silly. One is good for eating, the other makes great deserts. It all comes down to the application and ingredients.

Murlo26 03-24-2011 02:01 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8klla (Post 377995)
By lower are you referring to the initial boost spike? It appears that boost on both MAP long runner manifolds was lower throughout. Numbers coming soon!
Yes the boost spike, which tends to carry power through the rpm range better. But overall boost was typically lower on the long runner designs on all the runs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt D. (Post 377996)
These manifold comparisons are getting old. You tune for the setup, not for the part. You could have two identically built cars and the tunes between them will be anything but identical. It might be apples to apples, but comparing Red Delicious to Granny Smith is silly. One is good for eating, the other makes great deserts. It all comes down to the application and ingredients.
I could go for some apple pie, sounds yummy.

v8klla 03-24-2011 02:04 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt D. (Post 377996)
These manifold comparisons are getting old. You tune for the setup, not for the part. You could have two identically built cars and the tunes between them will be anything but identical. It might be apples to apples, but comparing Red Delicious to Granny Smith is silly. One is good for eating, the other makes great deserts. It all comes down to the application and ingredients.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion (which I agree with to an extent, every car is different), but if you recall I was all but forced into this round of testing ;)

Matt D. 03-24-2011 02:08 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8klla (Post 377999)
You're certainly entitled to your opinion (which I agree with to an extent, every car is different), but if you recall I was all but forced into this round of testing ;)
And imagine that, your product performed the best at your facility. Shocking. :)

Murlo26 03-24-2011 02:09 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
If you want to get technical...the short runner that they don't make performed by far the best overall on the actual testing. Best spool/most power.

Shane@DBPerformance 03-24-2011 02:14 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlo26 (Post 378002)
If you want to get technical...the short runner that they don't make performed by far the best overall on the actual testing. Best spool/most power.
If that is the one listed as "MAP Short Runner" above, then it was also making the most boost.

Murlo26 03-24-2011 02:16 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane@DBPerformance (Post 378003)
If that is the one listed as "MAP Short Runner" above, then it was also making the most boost.
Indeed, which is why this test can never be perfect no matter what you do.

You either change the tune to get the boost and everything as close as possible or you do what we did. I think both have advantages and both have shortcomings.

I don't think either is better than the other.

But the short runner is still running comparable boost to the baseline which is what matters.

Matt D. 03-24-2011 02:17 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane@DBPerformance (Post 378003)
If that is the one listed as "MAP Short Runner" above, then it was also making the most boost.
That's how I understood it, hence my comment. :confused:

311evo 03-24-2011 02:18 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlo26 (Post 378004)
But the short runner is still running comparable boost to the baseline which is what matters.
Close no doubt, but 2psi can make 20hp difference at your power level.

v8klla 03-24-2011 03:15 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt D. (Post 378001)
And imagine that, your product performed the best at your facility. Shocking. :)
And we (MAP) didn't touch a laptop throughout the entire process, can you imagine that? We did turn up the heat in the shop to approximately 150 degrees during the FID testing though ;)

Murlo26 03-24-2011 03:16 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Yea I was sweating like a pig for those runs..

mlomker 03-24-2011 03:25 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8klla (Post 378008)
We did turn up the heat in the shop to approximately 150 degrees during the FID testing though
:beer:

Kracka 03-24-2011 04:55 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
LOL exact opposite when we were doing the IM testing on my IX way back...damn that day was cold.

v8klla 03-24-2011 06:33 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
MAP's Evo X Exhaust Manifold Testing / Dyno Results

FattyBoomBatty 03-24-2011 10:08 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
I like how the test was performed, and I believe you guys (MAP and Dave). But can we get some pictures? I especially want to see the old style long runner and revised versions right next to each other. I want to see what made a 10hp difference.

Murlo26 03-24-2011 11:06 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Like I said, I didn't take any pictures of either manifold, Chris would have to take these pics. They still have these manifolds.

v8klla 03-25-2011 10:17 AM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
I will have some up shortly.

Murlo26 03-25-2011 02:45 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Picked up the car today from MAP.

The car doesn't really feel any laggier and spool doesn't feel any worse really, the car still feels peppy.

Can't wait for a full retune to see what it can do now!

goodhart 03-25-2011 02:46 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
So which manifold is on the car right now?

Murlo26 03-25-2011 02:48 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Scheides' old one, the original MAP long Runner one. That's why we tested it last because that was actually mine.

turbotalon1g 03-25-2011 03:26 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Are you tune up your street tune? or F&F mode race tune?

Murlo26 03-25-2011 03:27 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
I am confused, are you asking which tune the test was on or which tune am I going to get re-tuned?

Matt D. 03-25-2011 03:32 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlo26 (Post 378132)
I am confused, are you asking which tune the test was on or which tune am I going to get re-tuned?
Excuse him, he's ESL. ;)

v8klla 03-25-2011 04:56 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyBoomBatty (Post 378069)
I like how the test was performed, and I believe you guys (MAP and Dave). But can we get some pictures? I especially want to see the old style long runner and revised versions right next to each other. I want to see what made a 10hp difference.
MAP Long Runner at the bottom, followed by our Revised Long Runner and then FID moving upwards.

http://www.maperformance.com/img/Manifolds.JPG

http://www.maperformance.com/img/Manifolds2.JPG

t-revzr 03-25-2011 05:20 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Looks good!

Murlo26 03-29-2011 02:03 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
Well...been starting to beat on the car a little bit really watching for knock...had to stop this pull at lunch due to a bit of knock (spool up) but you can still see the street spool on the MAP mani...seems to of taken about 400-500rpms of spool out on the setup and it is quite noticeable on the street. Top end seems more scary now though which is good and what I was going for but I am hoping some mivec tuning can pep up the midrange again.

It was cold out so boost seems to be up too...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...26/3-29-11.jpg

v8klla 03-29-2011 02:11 PM
Re: Dave's Evo X Build/The Life of Dave blog
 
If you look closely at the graphs spool did suffer on the long runners (including FID) but on the dyno the horespower and torque did not, perhaps better efficiency creating the same power at lower boost levels?


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