Re: beaterX project thread
 

I would do a leakdown test. It won't tell everything, but might help you decide if you are going to pull the head. If the valve seats are compressed, then you might also have worn valve guides, which can cause more oil usage or even cause one of the valve guide seals to get knocked out of place.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

I agree with Shane on the leakdown test. At least it gives you something concrete to analyze, I know in our professional lives we have a common consensus that data is king and no smart/intelligent decision can be made without it!

I’m speculating the sparkplug failure event could have messed up a cylinder wall a little, that would be worse case??

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Well the weather outside is frightful, leakdown/compression numbers are trightful, let it go let it go let it go

Evo leakdown results:
1- 50% air from intake & exhaust
2- 50% air from intake & exhaust
3- 20% no leak at all*
4- 50% air from intake &exhaust

Cold compression
110 140 130*110

Walkin in an Evo wonderlaaaaaaaand. :)

Dear Santa....

Re: beaterX project thread
 

:(

Those numbers sadden me

Re: beaterX project thread
 

:( still seemed to make good power for that kind of results if you want to look at the positives

Re: beaterX project thread
 

hell yea! Plus it's 'just' the head. Making plans now for when to get it yanked off, fixed, and re-installed.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

It's a dsm, let r buck :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

mighty putty??

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Heh! Problem is the car just sounds like shit. It sounds like a diesel until its fully warmed up and oil hot and even then it's not right.

Yes but where to put it, the coolant or the oil? :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Low compression = Moar boost = No more problem :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Ouch...

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Sucky dude

Re: beaterX project thread
 

2jz swap. Found you a whole engine for under 1k !

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Time for a valve job.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Heh, I did that already, see fall dyno day thread :)

Hell yes!

Yea, thats the plan. Gonna get through the holidays and then rip the head off and try to get it fixed asap. The head already has supertech +1mm valves in it, not sure they'd be not good enough...

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Supertechs are nice ones. They have been solid for me, I have the same ones and those have been through two motors on my car. I don't think quality or durability is the problem, at least with the valves, maybe another weak point?

Re: beaterX project thread
 

What springs do you have Murlo?

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Supertechs.

I was going to do Manley's with my build but for whatever reason the Manley ones for the 4b11 are not "manly" and couldn't support the lift on my cams.

edit: sorry for going OT.

Scheides what springs do you have again? Maybe that is your issue? I doubt it though.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

I think his are the same as yours; that was my initial hypothesis.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Things do just wear out on cars like this. Stiffer springs, more aggressive cam lobes, higher rpms, etc take their toll over time.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

You mean our 600whp+ race cars don't last forever!? :(

Sad times...bye bye money, bye bye. ;)

But on a serious note, I would've hoped 40k miles would've been more likely but maybe ~20k is just time. That sucks.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Are the supertechs dual springs? I'm not a head guru at all, but I always thought dual springs increased the pressure quite a bit, to the point I personally don't want to run them on a car I put a lot of miles on as I'd imagine that large increase in pressure would start to affect other things like valve seats and what-not. Would rather just run upgraded basic single springs, or beehive single springs if I needed something more than that.

But again, I'm no expert on that type of stuff so maybe I'm way off.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

They are duals, I needed them though to handle my lift and not many other people have shown any issues with them. But not a lot of people DD with them and get to 20k miles +.

I think Scheides could've used the Kelford springs as they were designed for his cams but the supertechs have proven themselves for power anyway.

GSC also has some now for the X, not sure on the ratings though, I'd guess good enough for 8500rpms+ and their GSC s2's.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

I have supertech duals. Wondering if they were overkill for the setup and caused premature wear? Not sure. Thinking of trying some more basic beehive springs instead this time; the supertechs have always been loud.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Exactly my thought, if you need them because you are reving that high, or running that aggressive of a cam profile, then OK. But if not, and they aren't necessary, a less aggressive spring may be better for longevity. That's where I always kind of thought beehives stood out, better than standard single springs, but gentler than duals.

I'm just a cheap ass and always run cheap Crower style singles and don't run extremely high lift cams, or try to rev to the moon.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

GSC beehives I've always thought were awesome and what I'd buy if I was going all out. Again they are single springs so I think of them being gentler than duals. But they also seem to have extremely light titanium retainers (lighter than most of the competition) which also helps significantly. So you basically get dual spring performance out of a single spring setup.

I can't speak on the Evo X ones they make though, only just in general.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

The X loves to rev high, like a honda basically, so I wanted maximum revs. Especially with the short gearing of the X, more revs helps.

Not sure what Scheides' feelings are but I'd vote to keep the high revs on this car. Just my thoughts, especially with a 2.0L motor.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

BTW, I'd be surprised if GSC only rated their springs to 8500rpm. They usually seem to rate their beehive stuff to like 9-10k, even with aggressive cams.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

The reason I said 8500, I honestly haven't looked, is they only rate their GSC s2 cams on the X up to 8500. Or rather they recommend a rev range of 3500-8500 on them, so not sure what they really means.

You could be right though, I guess I'd have to check.

edit: checked while writing:

Says 9500rpms+ on MAPs website:

http://www.maperformance.com/gsc-pow...l#.UM-HAHfp5Jk

Id go with this springs/retainers if I had to all over again. They weren't out when I bought mine.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Got my ducks in a row, found a deal on some parts and pulled the trigger on a few goodies. You can probably guess what I got, but I'll wait until they're in my hand to say for sure :P

Head came off tonight. 4 hours flat, not bad for a computer dork and the fact that you have to strip the whole side of the engine down to get the timing cover off this thing. I still LOVE the 4b11's timing/oiling design over the 4G63, it is just simple.

Head gasket is clean as a whistle! I think the fact that the open-deck has less surface area between the head and the block lends to less likely headgasket issues, less hydrolic pressure to 'jack' the two apart. Seriously I'll hardly have to clean the block, surface, it's mint.
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-...3394.sized.jpg

Bottom end is frickin MINT except for this carbon build-up. Yuck. But, walls are beautiful and pistons are in great shape otherwise!
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-...3395.sized.jpg

more:
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-...3399.sized.jpg

more build-up in the head too, maybe this is part of what's wrong. Doesn't seem to lend to the clearance problem I came across but it sure could help explain the leakdown results I had.
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-...3393.sized.jpg

Day off tomorrow, gonna tear down the head and get it to the machine shop...then pray there are no complications or valve tappets miss-sized.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Good progress, this thing will be back on the road in no time!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Man this thing comes apart pretty often.
Will it be making more power then or just where it should be again when you are done?

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Heh, I've put thousands of miles on it since the turbo stuff this summer. The shortblock has probably 21-22k on it, I drive it every day. I'm not not super happy it comes apart as often as it does but hey fix it quick and back on the road, that's my motto. No jack stands queen for me!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Head is off at the machine shop and I'm praying for a quick turn-around. Cleaning the block yesterday I scrub off all of the carbon build-up and there's one chunk that won't wipe away (also notice the pitting):

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-...3406.sized.jpg

Finally I move on to the others and move that piston to the bottom of the cylinder and realize that I may have overlooked something during my initial inspection. After cleaning it up I was able to find this:

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-...3407.sized.jpg

This is the cylinder that the spark plug broke on :( My nail *slightly* catches on a few of these marks unfortunately.

At this point I have to look at the facts:
-compression was good in this cylinder
-leakdown test showed leakage in the valves, not the rings
-while not the whole problem, this may have been contributing to the oil consumption issue.

DSM'er in me (and my wife) are forcing me to finish fixing the head and spend the couple hours it will take to re-assemble it and get it back on the road. I cannot afford the downtime required to fully fix it right now; the block is already .020" over and will need to be sleeved if it comes out again. Once it's back together I'll re-test compression/leakdown and watch oil consumption and then keep an eye out for a good core to get sleeved.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

That scoring doesnt look good but could you do a quick hone while you have the head off? Just to get it a little smoother.

Yea id just put the head back on and letter buck, see what compression is after that.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Ouch, that doesn't look very good. It shouldn't cause any catastrophic issues, so you can plan for a rebuild down the road a little ways. It looks like some signs of detonation on your pistons also, there are some craters in them.

If your fingernail catches them they are usually at least .002" deep. If they are less than .005" deep you could bore it .030" over (since you are .020" over already) and get rid of the scratches. Can the stock block take .030" over?

Re: beaterX project thread
 

I don't think honing it with the piston still in is a very good idea, if I fix it I'll fix it 'right'


I think the craters are from the same thing that caused the scratches, none of the other cylinders have them :)

If the block comes out it's getting sleeved, .020" is already risky enough on this block.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

It will be fine, even with the little bit of damage that is there, all it will do is possibly cause some blow-by and oil consumption. power-wise you will be splitting hairs. Just check the oil occasionally and let r buck!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Kind of reminds me of the scratches/dings I had in my 1 cylinder when I had a valve fail on me. I had taken the pistons/rods out, so I ran a hone through mine but even after that I could still just barely feel them with my finger nail. I ran it like that. That one cylinder always had liek 5-10psi less compression than the others, but it ran fine, didn't consume any oil that I could ever tell. I made my highest dyno numbers, and ran my 10sec pass with the motor like that.

I'd honestly just let er buck. It may not be perfect, but that's OK sometimes. It may prove to hardly make a noticeable difference at all.