Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

No need for DSMlink. There is a knock sensor in a 1g also, same threads. Just put your 2g sensor in there.

Yes the 2g head will go on a 6 bolt block. You just need to drill/ream out the head bolt holes since 6 bolts are 1mm bigger. There is a ton of press on doing the swap. I am sure vfaq.com has a full procedure for it.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Ok so you are saying since he's changing to a 1G block, a datalogger can then read the knock or?

Does the ECU get changed in this swap as well or?

This guy really needs to understand the concept of knock, how to read it and how to tune around it or he's just going to be right back in the same trouble again.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I used dsmlink for my 6 bolt in a 2g swap. I know when the battery has been disconnected and the settings in the link have been reset, my car misfires horribly without dsmlink.

I also reused my 2g head, thermostat, waterpipe, some of the timing componets, intake, throttle body, wiring harness, pulleys and accesories. Only thing 6bolt was the shortblock, lower timing cover, oil filter housing, waterpump and 1g cas.

Good choice on the 6 bolt. The people that are making good power on the 7 bolts have the knowledge and know how to swap crankwalked or bad 7 bolts with out too much time and effort. I know the guy who was making the most power on the 7 bolt used stock internals and collected various 7 bolts so that he had a fresh supply of parts when things went bad. He wasn't building up the bottom end at all.

Jim

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

ok, do i need dsm link or not? because i would like to know - i was told i don't need it, i really don't understand the concept of knock at all>> i'm sorry for being a newbie about that but all help would be nice on that subject!

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

DSMlink was needed in my case for getting rid of the Random Misfire issue that 2g owners tend to have when swapping a 1g CAS (needed for 6 bolt swap) into there setup to replace the signal of both the crank position sensor and the 2g CAS. Damn that was a long sentence...

A few people have had sucess without DSMLink by making very small adjustments to the 1g CAS once base timing has been set. RM sucks and is near impossible to get rid of unless you have DSMLink or use some other hack. DSMLink can ignore the random misfire checks by the 2g ECU, thats why people say you need it for the 6 bolt swap.

All the other good things DSMLink can do will help you from ruining your motor if you can have someone help you tune. Its nice to know when and how your engine is knocking, knocking under load will make quick work of even the best built engines. You can capture all of this with DSMlink, where as pocket loggers can not log knock on 2Gs.

Jim

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I have a 6 bolt in my car (97GST) and I have put 2 - 6 bolts in 2 other 2nd gen DSMs and I havent had a problem with misfire in any of them. I thought I had misfire in my car but it was just a bad plug wire. I guess some just get away with it. I'm sure not everyone with a 6 bolt in a 2g has DSMlink. So either deal with the misfire if you get it or get dsmlink.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

YOU DO NOT NEED DSMLINK! Knock is not readable since you'll still be using the OBDII ECU. Make sure Shindley knows you are using a 1G 7-bolt head.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

We do a lot of 6 bolt swaps without issue or DSMlink. I wouldn't worry about it unless it ends up being a problem in your case. Cross that bridge if and when you get to it.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

he knows, him and mike from qpr talked about everything that needs to be done - the 7 bolt head he knows about. mike made sure that i get stock mains or else if we put in arp mains we align hone first - i heard about the incident with jet and shindley - cranked 6bolt because of the arp mains not aligned honed. will a 1g intake manifold give me noticeable power gains? also- probably stupid question - how do u get your turbo to spool faster - i know u can get a new exhaust manifold or port it out, but what's other ways of getting it to spool faster>?

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

cuz right now even though i am really happy about the turbo, it spools around 4300rpms and i'm not used to not being able to spool fast, like the stock turbo did.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

One of the big parts with spool is having a free flowing exhaust. And PLEASE use some decent punctuation and capital letters! Your posts are a bitch to read sometimes. Your 50 trim should be spooling at ~3600 rpm on a 2.0. There must be something wrong or you have a really big exhaust side.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

For the 30-thousanth fucking time: use a 1G throttlebody and 1G intake manifold with the 1G head to make this work together as easily/best/cheapest possible.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

For once I wish Craig would go out of control! ;)

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

well, when i get the car back from shindley, hopefully soon - i will be able to check what my car is spooling at, i think it probably does spool around 3600rpms. i just never watched the boost gauge until i really felt something. what do u mean by big exhaust side? stupid question> and u mean free flowing exhaus meaning - something that won't hold it back, correct> like having aftermarket 3" all the way - which i do have, i have the Xtreme/Thermal 3" SS turboback set-up with the test pipe.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

kracka go easy, i know, i'm putting that in when i rebuild the 6-bolt. i'm just wondering if i will see noticeable power gains>that's it!

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

[QUOTE=i know u can get a new exhaust manifold or port it out, but what's other ways of getting it to spool faster>?[/QUOTE]
Nitrous

You would probably want dsmlink either way to log. It should run fine after the swap without it though.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

ARE U ALL HAPPY THAT I MADE THE DECISION ON THE 6 BOLT? i know it was the right decision - but damn, you all are a pain in the ass>> joking of course!

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Great you finally found the fucking caps lock, now just try use the rest of your keyboard properly and we will not have problems. If people are having a hard time reading your posts and you will do nothing to correct them I will make sure you don't post on here anymore. Fix the problem or I will.

CRAIG

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Is it all of us... or is it you.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

No shit, I wouldn't even think of using a 7 bolt if this happened to me....


btw, my 95 is currently at QPR getting a 6 bolt... and nobody had to even talk me into it!

If you're gonna do shit, do it right

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I saw that car the other day, it's one SEXY ASS car! nice ride!

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

He's on a 1 week vacation as of a few minutes ago. We tried to PM him and gave him time and chances to clean it up. Lets see if he picks up a book on working a keyboard during the week.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Please tell me a n00b hacked your account and wrote that?

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I was wondering if you guys liked it :)

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I don't know what you mean ;)

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Where did our good buddy go? You wouldn't know anything about that I assume ;)

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Craig didn't get banned, it was the new kid Brian. Blkbroken50trim or whatever. At least that is what it looks like to me.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

"Blkbroken50trim".....

LMAO....

Cold as hell Mike, but just TOO Funny!

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I know it wasn't Craig, Blkbroken50trim emailed me asking what happened and why he couldn't get on the board ;)

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Yeah, when my turbo went out it did the same as urs and then i replace it and the car ran fine again.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Update, my NEW 50 trim that i ordered from Elite that I got directly shipped from PTE was almost 99% the reason for all my problems. The turbo had a bad seal in it and that is the reason for all the oil exhaust smoke coming from my car. It is also 99% sure that my 7 bolt went on me because i kept driving and the car kept burning off oil, when i went into high rpm's once or twice it spun the #3 rod bearing. keep in mind that this turbo was brand new! only reason why i thought it wasn't the turbo is because it is brand new, me and half the ppl on dsmstyle believed that it just was oil still in the exhaust and it was taking alot of time to burn it off. We used the PTE oil kit for the 50 trim and everything was intstalled to perfection. I drove the car with the turbo in it for about 35 miles, when we first put it in we noticed that the wheel didn't spin smoothly but hard, but of course we didn't think anything of it. After driving 35 miles and taking it off the car the turbo has basically fallen apart and destructed itself, there's in and out shaftplay and the wheel is grinding against the side of the intake inlet, causing aluminum to go into the intake. Talked to Elite and there shipping it out to PTE on tuesday and sending me out a new one which i'm very pleased about. but yeah, i feel that this car is cursed - sorry for any grammar shit, i typed this as fast i could cuz i have't slept in two days. tell me what you think!

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

and just to let you know, the oil return line going from the turbo wasn't crimped or anything like that, and also, soon i'm going to post all about my 6-bolt, what shindley used and how happy he is about the engine that he built up for me.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

First, not surprised to see Elite helping out with this and getting things between PTE and yourself worked out for warrenty issues. It's nice to have guys on here who work that fast to help out.

Second, I'm 99.9% fed up with your inability to type 1 fucking post that makes me want to rip my hair out reading it. I don't care if you had been up for 2 years on twinkies and cherry 7-up. Fix it.

Third, after reading all the fun shit on the MN DSM yahoo list as well with this same car I am gonna go out and say the turbo was probably fucked over by the motor already being toast. Your biggest mistake was letting someone highway tune the car with a 5 knob afc, egt, and a/f blinky gauge. There is no way a proper tune was going to be had with no way to datalog any info and only having and old 5 knob afc. Unless I missed a post that said you had antyhing else for tuning, my opinion (as worthless as it may be) is that the turbo was not at fault.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Perfect example. 1 more post like this and bye bye for good. Take 10 extra seconds on the post, please!

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Yeah, explain to me how dirty oil in the turbo would take out an engine? It goes straight back into the oil pan, not through the engine! If the aluminum from the compressor cover was supposedly the culprit, that would not get down in the oil either, just leave lots of aluminum bits in the cylinders, or pass right through.

The only way it could do something would be to send so much crap through that it clogs the filter and bypass' it. I warned you once, don't get taken in by Rick's words. He tends to throw around a lot of ideas and big words. It is very easy to get swayed by him if you don't know exactly what you are talking about. I have had a very similar experience with him and he still will not admit that he is to blame for my engine going. Through me doing more research (which HE should have done) I found out the real cause of the problem. Rick thinks he is a guru (he doesn't pretend, he really thinks he is!), but he is not. There are several people on this board that know more about DSM's than Rick.

If he thinks he can tune a car with just an EGT guage, he is sorely mistaken. That worked with the small 16g's back in the day, but not when you get to a bigger turbo like a 50 trim. That thing was probably knocking like mad, and that killed your engine. If he is going to "tune" cars, he should at least spend $100 and get a damn logger so he can monitor knock! [/rant]

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I have no doubt that the seals in the turbo could have gone. But I agree with JET that it isn't the reason your motor went. If the turbo was going through that much oil and you didn't catch it then thats your fault for still driving the car. When you install a big part like that you should always double and triple check everything for the first few hundred miles. I agree that your rod bearing failure was due to improper tuning which let to knock which led to the rod bearing going to shit.

I am wondering where you got your oil source from? If its in your post above then somebody quote it cause I can't read that shit more than once. I have heard that too much oil pressure has cause some PTE turbos to fail prematurely from blown seals.

CRAIG

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

On the MN-DSM list Rick said it was from the oil filter housing using a RRE stainless line. Oil pressure shouldn't have been a problem, especially on a used oil pump. He must have just got a bad turbo, or it was spun up with an air compressor or something while it was dry.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I have to say this, not to put blame directly on anyone, but because it is the straight up truth. I don't know who put the turbo on, but if you noticed it was spinning hard instead of smooth as it should of, it was the installers responsibility to find out why and either return it at that point or correct the problem. If you put a part on that is questionable in the beginning and something happens, should you be all that surprised? Turbos are not supposed to be hard to spin when they are new, if they are, there is a problem.

Now next on the list, why do rod bearings spin? It is usually from oil starvation, followed by overheating on the journal then failure. Oil that is extremely dirty or has no more lubricating qualities left can also add to that possibility. If the motor was new, too tight of bearing clearances can also cause it. So figure out why those situations might be true and you have the reason for your failure. Knock can cause major destruction, but it will not cause a bearing to spin.
Either way, tuning on the street without some decent method of logging is just asking for trouble.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Could be a bad turbo or maybe the motor was already on it's way out before the new turbo was put on it and took the turbo out with it. We have only ever had to return 1 PTE turbo to them for warrenty work and it was because the guy incorrectly installed an oil cooler setup on his car, so the motor and turbo didn't get any oil pressure, both the motor and turbo were ruined. PTE found bearing material in the turbo from the motor and determined the cause of failure to be oil contamination, however, they still fixed it for free under warrenty.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

We had the turbo put on the 6-bolt, it was fine until the car warmed up and then huge amounts of oil and aluminum smoke could be seen. he drove the car 5 miles without spooling past 10 pounds of boost. He took off the turbo and there was a lot of shaftplay going in and out, the wheel was grinding up against the intake inlet(causing the aluminum smoke). the oil was brand new and the oil was contaminated with just aluminum from the wheel grinding, i've looked up tons of info on this and there's no doubt that the turbo was just bad. I'm bringing the turbo to elite tomorrow so they can send it out to PTE to get a new one and the bad turbo looked at.