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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Sorry I wasn't much help. I wish I could of helped you out more.
I say you go option 2 tho! 6262 all the way! |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
I vote stock turbo while black is rebuilt or skip to the HTA. The 6262 is nice but the HTA turbos are worth the extra cost in my mind.
If you are going to invest more money as in a few thousand give or take more, then you mind as well get the best option. But that is my thought process. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Edited my last post with the option of the 6262 also being temporary if need be.
One thing I have to mention, between the 3 turbos, which spools the best? |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
I'm gonna be a PITA here, but can you break down the cost options here.
I'm not in the know as far as pricing goes for evo stuff other than its spendy. For example: Manifold: 600 turbo: 900 total: 1500 A more helpful part now, remember that your turbo if changing from stock frame might need different oil/water lines, flanges, downpipe, etc. Try to add up the little things because well they do add up. Good luck, my vote is if you want to make the power I think you are shooting for and just be street king 6262 is where it is at unless you want to do 6765 but I'm guessing thats too big. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
^Double those costs and you'll be closer in the Evo ballpark :)
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
but the HTA86 spools almost as fast as the 6262 IIRC, but makes a much more broad powerband.
I'll start deviding the pricing and such. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Updated the price estimates.
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
A 6262 setup on your car should be a far amount laggier, due to the loss of twin scroll, a bigger exhaust wheel and bigger exhaust housing. So if lag is a concern...
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Lag is a concern, I still want the largest powerband available in the area. But I don't want to have to worry about rebuilding the turbo every 6 months. If it's 2-500 rpms laggier it's not a concern. I could always go ball bearing with the 6262, but at that point I would rather get the HTA86.
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Ball bearing doesn't really help initial spool up much either. They respool faster, like between gears though, because they don't spin down nearly as fast as a journal bearing turbo.
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
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How about we include ALL of the parts for a real cost tally: Turbo: $1100-1500 (6262 to an hta, and you better get BB if you want real reliability) Manifold: $600-1000 O2 housing/Downpipe: $400-700 Wastegate: $400 (? no idea) Oil and coolant lines: $200-250 (?) Modify intake: $50-200 The cheapest kit on the market IIRC is around $3000 for a non-hta 35R and cast manifold (buschur's and I hear MAP can get it too), up to $4500-ish for an AMS setup. A 6262 vs hta3586 is kinda a toss-up to me, I have lusted over hta35R's forever but the 6262 is damn good bang for your buck. Personally I would get FP on the phone, setup something to do a super quick turnaround, and just get the black rebuilt. I'm sure it'll cost around $500 but if they can do it in just a few days + overnight shipping on either end you'll keep downtime to a minimum. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Real cost Tally, okay. Some of my stuff may be a little off but I've been in contact with only a couple venders so far.
Quoted $1,200 for custom manifold, Tial WG, and dump tube. $800 for a journal bearing 6262, or $1,600 for the hta86. $400 for the oil lines and custom o2 housing. The thing with the black is that I don't know if I want to keep it when I get it back. And if that's the route I want to go then I don't really want to use it at all in order to keep the value up. Or I could use it and see how long it holds up. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
I'll be talking to a majority of the local vendors.
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
I've always thought of the HTA82 on a 2ltr or a HTA86 on a stroker the ideal setup. Not sure how much the GTX turbos add to the equation. scheides is right about the cost of the ETS-level kits...a bit crazy.
There's no doubt that it could be done for less locally but in my opinion this is an absolute shit time to start a car project. I know, my car was down this time last year. I caution against it...you could miss half the season due to various backlogs. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Here's the other thing, if you do that custom setup, how well can it perform and how long will it take to get made? Seems to me the downtime could be huge. I'm just a huge huge fan of stock-frame turbos I guess.
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
BBK-B + 50 shot. just another idea ;)
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
lol, If I change from the black it will only be something a little bigger.
But I've thought about adding a small shot. Would be fun. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
maybe i missed it but, what was the reason behind them not doing a warranty on the Black???
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
I personally would stick with something stock framed if someone makes one that is fairly reliable. Keeps things simple, and I like simple.
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
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The stock frames are remotely reliable short of some of the FP turbo's. The only problem is that I don't want to go smaller then the black, so my only options are the FP black or universal set up. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
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http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyn...te-6765-a.html http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...6vsPTA6765.jpg D'OH sorry i just noticed that's a HTA86 compared to a 6765 and not a 6262. My bad. Oh well something to look at anyway. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Double post... god i suck at life tonight...
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
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At least it gives some numbers for the HTA86 i guess. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Why not the HTA3582 as we were shoutboxing about it originally? The HTA82 would have some similar spool to a black, probably a few hundred rpms like you said you'd be ok with and would make more power over the black. Seems logical for an initial upgrade from the black.
Then if you truly get bored you could go HTA86 later. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
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The more I think about it the more I would like to give the black another chance. But I'm still not 100%, it's going to rely heavily on FP's month-out-of-warranty price for a rebuild and their turn around time. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
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The one thing I will always be careful about with the RED and BLACK FP turbos is that I run them to the edge so I will be vigilant to check for boost leaks. I do not want to overrun the turbo at these boost levels and shaft speeds. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
I think its wise to give the black one more chance...the setup works well imo.
But I'd understand if you wanted to go t3. T3 will be even harder to have fun around town with though...I know with my black its tough to find a good spot to have fun now because its gotten to a point where its just too fast almost. Stock turbo e85 you could rip up and down everywhere. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Keep in mind that you are talking about turning your car into less of a street car and more of a track car. This is a big step you're considering. My measly 300whp Evo is scary on an autocross course (ask brown man), and I have a hard time imagining actually road racing something faster than my 116whp 1985 MR2 (even though I hope I eventually do). Make sure you take everything into perspective before making your decision.
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
I have been taking all of that into account, after all I did decide to have the motor built instead of getting a stock used longblock for a lot less money. :)
I would like to give the black one more chance, if it fails again in 6 months then I'll fully commit to the switch. I'm not ruling it out right now though either. |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Sounds like FP will be getting me the turbo back before the cruise, and along with that cutting me a break on some of the rebuild assuming my wheels are fine.
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
sweet man! Glad to hear FP is dealing a bit and you will be primed and ready for the cruise. Could've been a lot worse.
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Great news!
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Turbo's back in, FP didn't charge me a dime even though they rebuilt it and put on an updated/clipped exhaust wheel!
It pulls pretty good now, I can't wait to get on my new intake mani and throttle body, along with the new grimmspeed EBCS I picked up. And of course a Shane tune. One thing that's been a little weird again is my clutch. It happened before where it would feel light, be very inconsistent, and when I start to push the pedal down it feels like it's shaking. Also, I got locked out of a gear and hit redline. The clutch pedal stuck to the floor for a few seconds until I pulled it back with my foot. After that it was still working normally. (I've already bled the clutch multiple times.) |
Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Do you have a clutch fork stopper, and is it properly adjusted?
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Sounds very similar to what happened when my TOB dislodged from the PP ring. Clutch fork stopper would be a good idea IMO.
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
It is adjusted properly, but no I do not have a stopper. :( It did this before though too, and then it seemed to kind of.... fix itself.
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Re: 311evo's ev-oh
Any extra wavy spring washers added to the TOB clip or just the standard two?
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