Re: Evo X upgrades
 

+1. I'd like to see what this thing can do when everything is working together smoothly.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Full Blown called. The pump housing was installed the 'wrong' way.

It turns out that FB designs their hangers such that the fuel inlets/outlets point forward toward the engine bay. This would place the slits in the cup to the back of the car. That actually could be enough to keep fuel from escaping as readily since during braking or turning the fuel would hit the solid parts of the cup.

All perfectly logical, other than the fact that the stock hanger isn't oriented that way and the hanger came with no instructions. lol.

I'm going to go pick up the car after work...I'm thinking I'll take it for the evening and find a big parking lot to perform some manuevers in to test it out.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

They should have machined an arrow or some sort of indication as to how it should be oriented in the car. It seriously came with no instructions?

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

None. I had FB ship the hanger direct to BlaqOPs, who did the plumbing and (poorly done) wiring for me. He said it was just a bare hanger, some hose, and fittings and that's it.

I emailed LJ for info on the suction line setup since it made no sense to me and that's when he sent me a photo with one mocked up (that photo is a billion pages back in this thread). Nobody ever mentioned reorienting the hanger. I've had that thing in & out over a dozen times (and Shawn, simulatedwood, did it the first few times) and why wouldn't we assume that it was oriented the same as stock?

Not that I care at this point. I'll be ecstatic if this is the fix. I wanna run BIR on Monday!

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I would say this is good news! It was an easy fix...better than hearing, "Sorry, we don't know why it isn't working, ours works fine on our car, better luck next time!"

Danny said the car would knock flash on sweeping lefts so just start out by turning left on anything at speed, if it knocks, that could be bad, otherwise you should be good to go.

Good news man! Now throw those damn ID's in there and let er buck already!

Edit: forgot about the intake, lol.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I didn't see anything during regular freeway driving. Guess I'll just have to beat her a little and see if she likes it. :D

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Too bad cloverleafs go to the right. :)

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

My thoughts exactly!

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

The roundabout in Eagan goes to the left! Reorienting the hanger didn't help, at least for how I want to use the car (auto-x and HPDE).

It doesn't cost much for them to block off the slits in the hanger cup as a test so I suppose that's worth trying. I may just have to go to a surge tank setup. MDR makes a decent looking kit but it looks like FB is equipped to fab things like that.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-x-e...-tank-kit.html

--
Took the car for a drive this morning and here's what I discovered:

1) I drove the car in figure-8 patterns and in circles in a parking lot and it seemed fine while it was performing the manuever, at a constant throttle position. When I stoped and paused for a moment (while waiting to exit the parking lot), I saw the knockCEL indicator flash.

2) I drove around the roundabout in Eagan 3-4 times (a left turn) and when I exited I applied a little bit of throttle, similar to what you'd do at the track. The car misfired and the check engine light came back on (I had cleared it before leaving the house).

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Surge tank time.... :(

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I am very glad I have no intentions to touch or modify my fuel system at all. It really seems to be one of the big weak points of the X.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

The stock hanger can have the issue on road courses but I've never heard of anyone running into the left-turn starvation problem on the street.

My car seems to run fine on a sedate drive but if I take a scheides-style run to Surly then I have the problems.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

This doesn't quite make sense, you saw the CEL? Or when you were accelerating to leave the lot? THe KnockCEL will NOT flash unless you are over a certain load point, 120 is the default IIRC (this would be equivelant of part throttle acceleration with maybe 5psi or so of boost).

I would consider taking the Full Blown kit out and putting in a stock hanger with a single pump or maybe putting in murlo's stock-hanger double pump hanger and see what happens. The latter seems the easiest to me (bribe him with beer)!

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I told him to do that long ago :)

Ps. I love beer...but I love rum more !


Regardless, since you are doing road racing, if I were you I would probably see if FB can work up a surge tank double pump setup using parts you already have. The Double pump in tank is great for straight line, but road racing, you will still need to keep you tank above 1/2 to be sure.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Maybe it's time to stop messing with all these unproven setups that in theory are great, but still remain mostly untested. Why not run an AMS fuel setup that's worked well for their high-power road race cars? It's time to get this thing on the road! Use next winter for more prototype testing.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

AMS doesn't sell their surge tank setup for the X's like the one Gates is using, which is lame.

They just have an inline pump setup which be enough for E85 might not be.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Don't pretend to understand that. I paused for a moment at the exit for the parking lot and then applied some gas in 1st gear to pull into the street and I saw it blinking. The car was either not rolling yet or just starting to roll when I saw it.

He has a progressive double pump (BlaqOPs modified hanger). It's not stock. I'd have to either block off his progressive pump or reinstall the progressive controller on my car. No matter what it'd be a few hours of work and I'd have to have Shane re-check the fueling afterward or I couldn't be sure that it was safe.

I'm getting the feeling that there isn't a long-term solution that doesn't involve a surge tank, whether it gets filled up by the FB or stock hanger.

That's the problem, just like for our intake...they are custom and not for sale. Relatively few companies sell surge tank setups because they're tough to make street legal for crash reasons (the law seems to consider the trunk to be the 'passenger compartment').

Their inline 270lph setup would work but it's only good for the power level that I'm currently running (420-430@DB). You get past a single pump and the complexity gets pretty ugly.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Well the shitty part is there is no reason to use two pumps to fill a surge tank, haha.

So maybe take one of those pumps off the double pumper and use it on the surge tank and buy yet another 255 and put two in parallel after the surge tank! Oh boy, this could get ugly :)

Better yet...trade your full blown hangar for a stock one with stock pump. Then get a surge tank setup with a 255 on the surge tank and a boost a pump on the 255, that is win!

That is what I have been thinking of doing eventually if I start to have problems.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Well, I'm glad I'm saving you a lot of money. :P This has been suckage for me.

The reason I might keep the FB hanger in the setup is because it has nice AN fittings vs the stocker being plastic. It'd be a single pump in that hanger and then you'd need an external pump (or two) off the surge tank. I'm not sure if a dual external there or a single big pump, like the Fuel Labs models would be the best choice.

http://www.fullblownmotorsports.net/...products_id/94

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

You guys ever talk to Goofygrin? He is a local down here who was running a E85 X with a surgetank.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

No. He probably runs pump. Life would be a lot easier if the in-tank Walbros did 350lph or so.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Goofy runs e85....but stock turbo. So a single 255 isn't a big deal.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

The point is he ran a surgetank and regularly tracked his car, he may be a good one to get some info from.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Oh I agree, I was just replying to Lomker.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I shot him a PM on EvoX. The only kit I've seen is the MDR, everything else has been a custom setup. Hopefully he'll reply with what he has.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

AN fittings are nice but end of the day, stock plastic (or whatever they are) fittings have been serving people well for years w/o fail.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Edited my above post with his fuel setup info.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

sounds like he probably has the MDR setup I would guess.

Which I think would work great with stock turbo and maybe a small stock frame.

His setup with a boost a pump on the pump feeding the rail would work perfect i think and be simple.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Now you're talking :)

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Yeah but I had to cut my stock lines off and the stock hanger doesn't have hose fittings, it uses factory quick disconnects. I'd have to hose clamp my 5/16" lines on there and the stock fittings aren't that big. The stock plastic lines are oddly thin for the amount of fuel that they flow.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I'm not sure how a $250 piece of electronics is simpler than just getting a higher capacity pump. The Fuel Lab unit that I linked to is 450lph at the standard voltage (13.x). The cost works out about the same.

I read through the MDR thread and I see that Goofy does have that setup. Sounds like a workable plan B.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

It is so you wouldn't have to buy another fuel pump basically.

But since your setup is pretty different right now, it probably works out to be the same.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Boost a pump on a 255 or rig up a way to run the ford gt with a boost a pump and call it a day.

How much power do you plan on making again? Seems like you're going over the top if you don't plan on making a million hp.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Lomkers fuel path wasn't a bad way to do it in the beginning. With the limited offerings for injectors direct drop in fuel pump upgrades etc for the X when he first started this it was logical to do it this way for limited down time.

It's easy to say now that he shouldn't done something else, but at the time it seemed like a good idea.

But the main problem is an inherit problem with the X fuel tank and fuel starvation when cornering.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

You guys must be German because you are overthinking and over-engineering everything. :)

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Dunno what it'll make. 475 maybe? A single 255 maxes at 420@DB on a X. I see that a Bosch 044 inline is rated for 300lph. Might be enough and it might be a limitation.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Maybe somewhat but I think what Shane said to me yesterday sums it up when I asked him when he was going to buy an Evo and he said he would consider a 9 RS because "Everything is more complicated on the X's".

I think a lot of people on this board are oversimplifying the situation and just assume its just another DSM and all the old tricks work perfect on the X's and all that good stuff and that there isn't any reason to do certain things etc etc.

Like I said, it's easy to look back now and say should've gone a different way, but it's not like the plan wasn't thought out...the X's design is what made problems.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Satisficing landed me with three sets of injectors ($1900) in just six months:

800cc was fine for pump.
1000cc was fine for E85 on stock turbo.
ID2000's are overkill but there were no intermediate sizes at the time.

Same goes for the fuel system. A single pump wasn't enough. An inline Walbro will work up to my current power level but not enough to max out the car. Where do you go from there? I went to an in-tank double pump and I'm now on the second setup (which generally works) but struggling with a fuel pickup issue due to the X's tank design.

All I want is to max out my car and have enough growth capacity to allow for bolting on an FP Black next year. It's looking like a surge tank setup with a Bosch inline would satisfice but I'm not sure if it'll be enough for the Black or not.

That's why I'm looking at the Fuel Labs that is around 450lph. I found a couple racers running it but I need to figure out where they mounted it since it's a lot larger than an external Walbro.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I'm just curious is all, I didn't mean to say or infer you're doing anything wrong.

I know most DSM's max out a single re-wired 255hp @ 450 at DB and thats what mine maxed at. I threw on a boost a pump on my single 255hp and last October I made 520awhp @ DB and it didn't seem maxed yet. I'm just thinking if you're not going for huge power and the stock sending unit isn't complete garbage it might be simple and less of a headache in the end to try a boost a pump.

It also wouldn't be hard to make your own surge tank, just finding a generic one and mounting it would probably be the hardest.

Good luck though, thing should be fun when you're all said and done. If that ever happens haha. Car projects never seem to end.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

The X is fine if you stop at a single Walbro and basic bolt-ons. Getting much over 400@DB seems to bring on the hurt.