Re: beaterX project thread
 

Knowing my luck and my cars, you're probably spot on :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

At least at 380whp you won't break anything :)

I think 430whp (your goal) should be easy, but I am a nub.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

I was thinking about it some more.

According to DW their pump is good for 600whp on MAP's dyno @ 14v and at 15.75v mine was about at the limit, so 600*(15.75/14) = 675whp @ MAP /1.15 (convert to DB dyno dynamics) = 586whp, I think if I can get about that I will be happy. If not, I will just list the car for sale, it's no fun anyways.

http://scheides.com/misc/pics/Ricer-excuse-gaugeweb.jpg

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Ricer math ftw. I'm doing the same calculations on my Weldon. :\

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Ok, doing boost control testing I'm getting some inconsistencies--I'm trying to get it sorted. So glad I have e85 so a little more boost doesn't hurt a thing, and I obviously have enough fuel now with the BAP turned all the way up, and I even leaned the fuel map out a little :D This is ~33psi to just shy of 7000rpm tapering to 28 at 8500. Go 'lil BBX GO!

http://scheides.com/misc/pics/evox/evox-bap-test2.jpg
Again, different starting RPMs!

Earlier today I mentioned to Hughes that I should upgrade the fuse for the fuel pump from a 20a to a 25a or 30a...prolly not a bad idea right? On the way home from Wagner's tonight sure as shit, it blew and I coasted into robbinsdale. I swapped in a 30a when I got home :)

Did I mention I'm having a blast getting the car dialed in? 4th gear the car just fukin rips!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

When were you dynoing?

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Wow, looking great Scheides! Can't wait to see it fully tuned up :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Weds.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Looks great! I forget, is this logging a wideband or narrowband O2?

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Narrowband, LOL yea right!

Wideband fo sho.

To be clear, the boost just happened to go this high, my goal is to keep it right around 30. It was a good test of the fuel system though, so I am happy with it.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Just happened to go that high... Yeah, right! ;) Are you worried about the stock wiring being the weak point with such a large fuse in there now?

Re: beaterX project thread
 

That is the idea of many fuses, to protect wiring, not protect devices. Basically anti fire device :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Yes, but only if they're properly sized for the gauge of wire they're being used on. Going from a 20A to a 30A doesn't sound like that big of an increase, but it's still 50%.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Well what gauge wire is the fuse on? 14 awg maybe? 14 is good for 15 amps, 12 awg for 20 amps...and so on.

I am an electrical engineer, done plenty of fuse sizing in my day.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

So say it is 12 awg since the factory fuse was 20A, wouldn't running a 30A fuse on it become a fire hazard?

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Possibly yes, depending on the wire rating. Some are rated for higher temperatures. What I quoted was the 75 degree C wire rating. There is also 60 degree and 90 degree and really high temp stuff that you can get away with a lot more.

75c is the norm typically though at least for industrial use, I am guessing auto is similar.

It honestly all depends on what kind of current he is actually drawing. If I knew that it would be easy to tell you. And it also depends on the type of fuse. There is an entire icky thing called fuseology...basically you have fuse curves that depending on current levels and length of time at those levels the fuse will be fine or blow. It gets messy.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Yea I would put in a 25A fuse but all I had was 30. I don't expect it to be a fire hazard as it's not going to continually run at the full 30a. The kit itself includes an upgraded 40a fuse so anyone that has installed one has likely run into this same problem.

If it ever is a problem, I make sure to carry a fire extinguisher at all times in the trunk.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

^I am going to start carrying one myself. I think it makes sense with the level of modification I have.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

FWIW I had done probably 10+ pulls w/o blowing the stock fuse so I'm guessing it's running right around 20A. The weird thing is that it blew right as I was getting on it, not like at the top of 4th gear or something (after a looooong pull at high amperage).

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Probably due to a quick spike as it turned on I bet. Like turning on a light, the initial surge is always greater than constant draw.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Correct, the pump is an inductive electrical load and will have a high inrush current. If that inrush is high enough the fuse will do its job and blow.

This is part of the same fuse curve I was talking about. Say a 20 amp fuse hits 30amps it will blow instantly, but at 21 amps it will probably take 5-10 seconds depending on the fuse.

You can blow 20a or 30a fuses very easily with a lot less running amps. Meaning your actually running amps could be 12-13 amps only.

Inrush is typically 10-12 times the amount of your actually running amps.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Also remember current equals heat and heats up the wires and then resistance goes up and creates more heat. So sustained use makes it easier for fuses to blow as everything is up to temperature.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

All good points, thx guys :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Updates! :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Update with dyno numbers!

First off, BAP is working like a champ. To clarify, it shipped with a properly-sized 30A fuse for the stock fuel wiring.

Next up, the Cobb BOV. This thing is smoother than a crushed stock BOV but is it really holding boost? I had been suspicious so I swapped my stocker back on just before I hit the dyno. AFR dropped nearly a full point on the street--this tells me the stocker is leaking. So I just left it on and after shane did a few warm-up baseline pulls I swapped the Cobb BOV back in with ZERO other changes:

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/...cobb.sized.jpg

So basically as it had been on the street (self-tune with some GREAT guidance from shane@DB) on the cobb valve it rolled in on ~460whp. Holy crap! I was so excited I couldn't believe it!

Shane made some changes to fueling to help address a part-throttle issue I had been having around 2500-3000 and tweaked timing slightly and that was about it.

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/...ance.sized.jpg

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/...oost.sized.jpg

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/..._afr.sized.jpg

Boost is about where I had it on the street with my hybrid MBC/BCS setup, the turbo is about at its limit from 6500+ as WGDC is pegged at 100%. I'm not trying to get a ton more out of it for now, this will be my every day tune as well as my drag/autoX tune. The car responds very linearly and the powerband is just wiiiiide and strong.

I'm very happy and I have some video that I'll post later.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Graphs look funky with the sharp edges, must be that Evo X vtak! haha

Great numbers though man! Makes me wish I would have done a before/after with my stock vs. synapse.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Nice numbers! 4k of powerband makes for a very fun all around machine :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Scheides,

Awesome numbers, wide powerband, and yes please at MAP proving grounds..can I please have another ride?

What has it taken to get here? and what you goal for the BIR 1/4 mile?

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Truf! I will be raising the rev limiter at the track as needed. The head has Supertech duals in it so it could easily turn into 5k of powerband :) This graph doesn't show it very well, but the car is *very* driveable and has plenty of power under 3500rpm and it idles like a dream.

I am constantly looking forward so I can't help but think about what's next but I'm honestly not sure....ported IM/TB would help all over and bigger cams would probably help a little up top but...that's all way down the road :P

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Wow, 480whp, awesome numbers!

That looks like an awesome setup you have there I must say. I love the boost creep in the middle, prolly makes the car feel likes its pulling like crazy.

Do want a ride.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Great numbers! I'll have to get another ride from you at some point.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Overlay my 500whp graph if you get a chance! I want to see how the midrange stacks up. Obviously I was pushing my setup more with a lot more boost but I wanna see how different the black/bbx really are.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Here's a super crude overlay:

http://www.rallyshark.com/xoverlay.jpg
Is anybody going to be dragging in the "Street Appearing class" ?

Re: beaterX project thread
 

^Hmm, most impressive I must say. I didn't think the BBX had this much in it honestly.

This really make me hopeful for the black with the tub mani now.

I really want a ride in this thing!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Heh that overlay is crazy. More boost is def worth more torque but I don't think much more peak whp. Yes a tubular manifold definitely helps get the BBX up closer to your Black was on the ported stocker. This tune is pretty solid, only 17-18° up top and gunning for ~30psi across the board. There's no more boost to be had from 6500+ so I don't think it has 500 in it as it sits, more timing would just yield diminishing returns.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Thanks man!

BBX is 100% stock appearing from the outside so we will see what happens :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Nice. If nothing else I'd like to line up our cars on Saturday during open practice runs :D

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Game on! My car is pretty fat and I'm a pretty shitty drive though :)

So here's an interesting overlay--my old evo8, BBK Full on alky, 30psi vs current evoX setup:

http://scheides.com/misc/pics/evox/o...8-bbk-alky.jpg

At the time I was considering going from BBK Full to BBK-B which I imagine would have looked a little something like the above overlay--a little sacrifice down low for a big gain up top. *sheds small tear for awesome stock bottom-end evo8 setup and a great car*

Re: beaterX project thread
 

It's weird to me how the X's need higher boost to get the same torque as the 8/9's. If you threw another 3psi in there the top end would probably not change but your midrange would look a lot beefier in there I bet and then your old setup would only be "better" for a bit down low.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Thats a very impressive and fun looking power band!