Re: beaterX project thread
 

Evo X Head > Evo 9 Head > Evo 8 Head > 2G DSM Head > 1G DSM Head. So those of us with DSM heads have to do a bit more work to get them to keep making power at high RPMs. The typical aftermarket cams for a DSM are comparable to what came stock on the Evos. To run the lift that a lot of the Evo 8/9/X cams have requires actually modding the DSM heads more than normal because the retainers can hit the valve seals. The damn stock intake manifold on the Evo X looks almost like an aftermarket piece compared to what came on most cars.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

DSMs FTL.

Cool plan scheidesy, maybe by the time MAP's proving grounds hit you could turn it up and go for the quickest local 10? hahahaha

FYI, shane your sn takes up 1/3 of the room laterally when you post. lol

Re: beaterX project thread
 

here is the FPred Pump gas car I was referring to scheides.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...g?t=1294860870

So I would imagine your car on 26psi would be at least 360ish.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Heh you said 350, looks more like 335 to me :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Still pulling at 7400rpm, that must be nice.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

you are right, however it is a stock motor, stock cams too I think and with only 25psi.

i still think you can reach numbers I said before especially if you rev it out.

The X's really seem to like tubular manifolds, so i am anxious to see what yours does.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Weak. My IX made 326 on pump with the stock turbo.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Did the block or head get decked at all during the rebuild? Might explain the slight increase in compression if stock compression pistons were in fact used. Just a thought.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Yup, both were. I thought about that too, but it still seems a bit on the high side. Oh well, I'm not gonna worry about it; its on the high side! I'd rather it be higher than lower.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Yea who cares Scheides, you are on the high side...just makes it more epic for when you give in to the dark side and go E85 like the rest of us ;)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Update time! I finally got some synthetic oil in the motor on Saturday, and found my way into Shane's schedule at DB Performance for some tuning. The goal really was for a nice mild street tune on pump gas; I have just started a new job and E85 is literally around the corner from my office now :)

I went in with expectations of running ~25-26psi, mild timing, and making power in the 365-370whp range. Tons of factors against me: snow tires (yes with snow on them, a LOT! I washed it off before getting on the rollers), when it's as cold as it has been, their dyno adds a teensy bit of downward weather correction, and I just generally have bad luck with making good numbers when I try and get a mid-winter dyno session in.

We got the car on the rollers and dried the tires off. I'm pumped b/c car actually is somewhat clean!
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-...1659.sized.jpg

First pull, I had turned the boost way down on the new motor. Red is setup last summer w/ BBX but no tubular manifold and everything that followed and Blue is the new setup pretty much as it rolled on the dyno. Timing turned way down, mivec cranked down, fuel richened up a bit (or so I thought):
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-...1665.sized.jpg

I said to shane, 'ok good! 21psi and the nearly the same power as kinda pushing the car last summer? Fuk yea! But no, we pressed on. 360whp@22psi. 375whp@23psi. 386whp@25psi. Wow! The car is making great power but wait, what's this? Sorry I don't have a pic, but the afr was creeping up from low 11's to nearly 12.0 starting at 7000rpm and ending at 8000. WAT!?!? After some playing, we come to the conclusion that I am pushing the limits of too many things:
-Stock MAF housing is at 4.9V as we turn the boost up, maxing around 7000. Gonna have to upgrade that.
-Stock Fuel pump may not be all it's cracked up to be on the interwebs (or mine isn't at least)
-DW800cc injectors (with my stock fuel pump) are hitting 100% IDC at 7000rpm and peaking at ~120% IDC.

Essentially, the injectors are likely going static and fuel pump is just giving up right around the same time and the MAF housing isn't helping things. Boo!

I'm watching sometimes in the dyno room and sometimes from the luxury of DB's new viewing facility on a comfy leather couch w/ a dew in hand:
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-...1666.sized.jpg

We end up turning the boost down to 22psi (peak) and shane feels that is about the limit for the manifold testing we're about to do. So, we go to swap the manifold. Holy FUK I hope everyone appreciates this test! It took probably 3x longer than it should have. One bolt got stuck in the turbine housing, had to coax that out and run a thread cutter/tap through all holes, and then right around midnight we got it buttoned up and I plugged the rear CAS back in. SNAP! I BROKE one of the fucking PINS OFF! GAH!

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evox-...1671.sized.jpg

Spaz sees Shane post a pic of me on facetube and runs up to help...he had shown up around 11 and listened to me b1tch as I was finishing up the manifold and dropping nuts and bolts into dyno never-never land. I had also been txt'ing Murlo...his car is put away for the winter....kazing! Spaz and I end up making the 18 mile trip from DB to Murlo's house at 12:15am and get there around 1am (roads were uber shyte most of the way), spend all of 3 minutes grabbing the sensor from him and then back to DB right around 1:45am. I spend 20 minutes swapping the PITA sensor and by 2:30am we are rolling and the car is ready to rock!


Everyone is now going to ask, what about the manifold test!?!??! PLEASE DON'T ASK! We're going to compile all of the data and post it very soon! I will say this: the two manifolds side-by-side are very similar and each have their strong points and in the real world they are damn close...still we DO have data to share! Please be patient (note the time schedule above and below).

Long story short? Shane and I stick around until 3:45amdoing this damn manifold test and in the end, I crank up the boost for ONE pull to see what this thing will do around 26psi.

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/...0whp.sized.jpg

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA YEEEHAW! 400whp on pump gas muthafukas! *400!* That is like 460whp dynojet! And with snow tires (I've seen -10whp from them) and -3 or -4% weather correction. Boost hits 27psi and tapers to 24psi. Make it hold 27psi? Some day yes! But not now, fuel starts going lean at like 5800rpm and ends up at 12.5 or leaner at 8000! The car runs SO GOOD it just needs a bit more fuel system to really shine.

Again, money is tight and getting home at 4:30am my wife Anna basically forbid me from doing car stuff 'for four months' LOL...The current plan is to fix the CAS and to get one of DW's 300 fuel pumps in the car for an extra margin of safety....then injectors...then a bigger MAF housing...then E85. All in good time! I turned the boost back down to 22psi peak (will verify on the street) and plan on just enjoying the car for the next few months. It runs freaking perfect, and I'm PUMPED about the power potential with just a bit more work.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amlSB4gh0GQ&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amlSB4gh0GQ

THANK YOU SHANE for staying so late and the awesome tuning and advice (as always).
THANK YOU SPAZ for the moral support and the ride to Murlo's!
THANK YOU MURLO for the CAS in the middle of the night!
THANK YOU 3 hours of sleep, epic back pain (mani on dyno = bad idea), and cut-up hands!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Awesome man! Have you looked into the Aeromotive 340 Stealth pump? It looks pretty good also.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

The Jay Racing, Aeromotive 340 and the DW are all possible options.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

400whp on pump! Jealous :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

That's awesome, but in all honesty you are a master of ricer math. Just take what you have and run with it. :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

You are crazy dude. hahaha Sweet numbers though!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

amazing! damn scheides, you one crazy mofo! lol. congrats on the numbers...on pump! :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Damn if I had know something as badass as this was going down, I woulda hung out for a while. Great meeting you, and nice to finally see the beaterX in person.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

I'm sorry, I can't help it. I have a degree in physics and computer science and basically cannot help my brain from thinking about all of the variables and math. Add into it the manifold test, shane and I were analyzing every possible detail all night.

But yes, it is what it is and I am HAPPY! :D

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Late night happy hour at DB Performance, two-for-ones on chocolate milk!

As much of a pain that was (literally and figuratively), things ended well and in between the bitching we had a good time.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Wow! Sweet numbers dude! I can't wait to see what it'll do once you get the fuel system up to par.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Congrates! Amazing numbers, beaterx has gotta rip. So what was the saftey tune number in the end after turning down the boost?

Spring cruise this year going to be fun with Beater-x making close to the numbers of your old setup.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Prolly around 375-385whp/340-345wtq @ 22-23psi tapering to 21-ish@8000. Once it warmed up last week I logged the car on the street for some 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear pulls and even in only 3rd gear it was peaking 26psi and tapering to 24, too high! Also pegging 5v on the MAF. So I turned the MBC down another 1.5 turns and I'll log it more. Basically the tune is totally safe as long and the car won't see long/hard pulls over 7000. At least until I've logged and confirmed safety (i.e. boost is not through the roof).

This weekend I was finishing up some things and look what I found! The trans plug that I 'lost' during reassembly and ended up ordering a new one from Mitsu:
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/...plug.sized.jpg

LOL damn that little thing! Oh well. Also I swapped my 'fixed' CAS back in (I straightened out the bent pin) and it works great! Thanks again to Murlo for letting me gank his in the middle of the night, freaking lifesaver! I'm just so pumped that mine works and I don't have to buy a new one. Got the heat shield back over it and double checked all of the nuts/bolts on the manifold.

Then I checked the oil (all good!) and yanked the valvecover one more time. Valve #3 on the intake side is still a bit wide, .012" gap (spec is .008+/-.001) but the good thing is that it has not changed in the 700 miles since I last checked it. There is a *little* bit of valvetrain noise when the car is cold but that is about it. Obviously this isn't affecting performance. It takes about 20 minutes to get everythign off, check it, and button it back up so I'll probably continue to check this. I had thought about swapping in some S2's and fixing this issue this summer but as of now I am *so* happy with the Kelford 214-B's that it may just stay this way indefinitely.

Last but not least, big day! I put the strut tower bar back on, as well as the engine cover. She's officially all buttoned up :)

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/...d_up.sized.jpg

Re: beaterX project thread
 

YAY!

Now time to drive and have fun. Gas and oil changes from here on out ;)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Bitchin' strut tower bar! ...but have you considered gold spray paint an an ARC sticker?

Re: beaterX project thread
 

The paint is on the way from the ARC factory in the far east. The sticker I need to gank off of an intake, that might have to wait until we get to the cookout...I could at least get the thing painted up and then put the sticker on when we get there! :)

Re: beaterX project thread
 

NIIIIIIIICE!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Hughes made an interesting comment to me last night:

Now my stock turbo setup wasn't the most powerful I've seen, but it wasn't the weakest either. Certainly torque-wise it was roughly on-par with other pump gas setups I'd seen locally (example1, example2). Anyways, then vs now:

http://scheides.com/misc/pics/evox/o...B-BBX-pump.jpg

My point being that it is *amazing* how the headwork and kelford cams have woken up this car down low. Its freaking amazing to me! After I put the MAP tubular manifold on the car last fall it got a teensy bit doggy in the 3500-rpm area but honestly that is gone now and the car feels very very responsive. Even at only 22psi it just goes goes goes!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Damn, Hughes was talkin to everyone last night in his drunken stupor hahaha

Re: beaterX project thread
 

That wasn't Hughes:

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5903612_n.jpg

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Our stock turbo tunes were weak though so possibly not the greatest comparison. That one of yours definitely did have more midrange and torque than mine though.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

2 months later and I finally got a fuel pump for this thing. I'm glad I found the limit of the stock pump on my setup, but only driving this car around at 22psi is just silly. I went with the Deatschwerks DW300 and MAP's evoX fuel pump adapter kit. Install was a minor PITA but an extra set of hands made it pretty easy.

Stock assembly, partially taken apart:
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/dw300_1.sized.jpg

MAP assembly w/ DW300 pump. I ended up rotating it slightly to fit the filter in the hanger better. The MAP kit is nice b/c it locks the pump in place:
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/dw300_2.sized.jpg

Coiled up, no kinks!
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/dw300_4.sized.jpg

Then a few other things to get ready for spring. Bled the brakes with fresh ATE blue, checked pads (plenty of meat left on DS2500s), swapped on the rotas/sumis, cheese fries and cherry coke at checker w/ spaz, swapped gear oil in the rear diff....ATF fluid drain for the AYC was stuck (bent my cheap 10mm allen), topped up xfer case, and just generally checked things over from the bottom of the engine bay--no leaks yet!

Went for a quick test. Car runs just as before driving gently. DW300 pump is *silent*. Under WOT, AFRs are consistently half a point richer across the board and a full point above 7000rpm. Step one, check! Step two: moar boost! I cranked up the MBC 2 full cranks. This results in peak boost right around 25.5psi. Third and 4th gear the car holds about 24psi. It feels like a new monster has awoken from within!

On the dyno, with an extra crank and some on the mbc the car would do 27psi peak and taper to 22-23 IIRC. I'm going to lean out the afr a little and leave the boost right where it is for the cruise in two weeks. More to come after that, gotta do something about this pesky maxed-out maf sensor before dyno day :D

Thanks again for the help spazzy!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

YUM, cheese fries FTW!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

That's good to hear! I think the X insulates pump noise quite a bit better than previous generations (the plastic housing can't hurt) b/c I've never heard my Walbro or Tom's Bosch either.

Looking at your pictures, MAP could easily just lop off that whole lower porting of the aluminum adapter to save on materials, cost, etc.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

No problem, sir!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Nice work.

Re: beaterX project thread
 

very awesome. more fuel for the monster!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Actually the pump slides down in there and there is a small bevel at the bottom to keep the pump from sliding all the way through. Then there are a few set screws/locknuts on the side (that hold that plastic ring as well) to keep it from spinning within the housing.

My only complaint (and this will be no different from any other pump kit) is how the filter gets smashed up inside of the plastic housing...the stock pump has a round filter on it, if they could find one that worked for this application it would be awesome!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Ahh, that makes sense then. Agreed on the filter!

Re: beaterX project thread
 

Spring is late but right on time for my budget :D Been slowly making plans for the next steps, all of which will be unfolding over the few weeks! Started with that DW300 fuel pump about 3 weeks ago. Car has been running perfect, like stock pump but with more fuel capacity. I finally got to turn the boost back up to 25-26 peak but still couldn't utilize my hybrid BCS setup due to my MAF being completely maxed out. If I did any tweaking at all to boost, it would invariably flatline at 5v from 6000rpm+ and no matter what I did there was this little boost spike at like 6500rpm.

http://scheides.com/misc/pics/evox/maf-maxed-evox.jpg

With the added boost, I finally burned through this coupler that is who knows how old:
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/coupler1.sized.jpg

The car was at Primo for their up-and-coming 2.75" LICP (no pics yet sorry) and picked up one of their 3.5" intakes just today. I ordered a generic-sized aFe 3.5" pro-dry filter to go with it as it is IMHO an evolution of the tried-and-true K&N.

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/IMG_1768.sized.jpg

We had originally talked about them doing a custom intake for me to keep the stock BOV placement, but after thinking about it I decided to just go with their standard setup and ditch the like 30 feet of pressurized-hose from the stock setup.

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/IMG_1771.sized.jpg

This is a *really* nice piece! Install was simple, I did it over my lunch hour. I had my laptop with me and rescaled the maf initially to 1.48*stock maf tables. I tweaked to 1.45 and might drop to 1.43 to get it juuust right for my car. Higher was safer, so I started there, but all in all I have about 25 miles under my belt with it already and the car starts, idles, cruises, putts through stop-and-go traffic, and idles down my alley just like it did with the perrin/aFe intake: very very nicely!

We have a few fan shield designs to play with in coming weeks but its not quite warm enough here for necessary AC usage yet so I'm not too concerned. I'm stoked it uses the stock air scoop though.

For exactly two revisions of ecuflash, I'm *extremely* happy. Stock-like driveability, fuel trims are already down to -2.8%, afr's are nearly where I want them, and boost is a tish smoother (no hose going back into intake anymore, I think thats why):
http://scheides.com/misc/pics/evox/m...x-35intake.jpg

Today is monday--saturday is the spring dyno day. I plan on tweaking AFR a tish more this week and seeing if I can't get boost to stay nice and level ~26psi at 8000rpm and see if we can't get into the 41x whp range at DB this weekend on just pump gas and the DW800cc injectors (which are just touching 100% IDC).

Next week (or I guess this weekend if nobody signs up for the dyno day), these will go in :D
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evoX/IMG_1757.sized.jpg

0280158827 in da house! These are FIC 1680's, I picked them up with 100 miles on them from a buddy in chicago. Nom nom nom nom.