Re: swanny's sig
 

swanny i'm not hating on you, and i dont' mean to piss you off. its just that the site has been relatively drama free lately and well... what fun is that? ZERO FUN!

back to the topic:
lets not even get into the supra tranny crap. there have been so many 9sec street supras on stock transmissions i can't even name them all (or know them all, hah). ryan woon being being one of the faster peeps.

you're all gonna get worked by Slow Mark and his chubby fratboy carmate anyways. the real races are going to be between those cobras and jake, and i think jake will still be winning.

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yeah drama is fun.
Fast Mark has some serious power on tap. Nitrous Mark has alot of plans, and the rest of the "porkey's players" always get faster.
I have some friends that call Jake's camaro a damm death drap and not stable at any speed, lol. But you can't deny its power.

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How did you get on nabr? I have tryed a few times a while ago but couldn't. I gave up because I couldn't get someone to invite me.

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Swanny are you planning on dumping a shit load of weight out of your car? If not I feel no matter how much power you make you will never be able to put it to the ground without breaking your transmissions and/or transfer cases.

From doing some reading on 3/S's I have came to the conclusion that the reason they have under achieved is not because they cannot make butt loads of power, its because they are huge ANCHORS that have suspect drivetrains because they are so heavy. You take a 3/S drivetrain and put it into a 2500lb car and it would probably be indestructable.

Prime example would be Matts J's VR4. When we were at Cedar Falls a few months ago he was having a hard time getting out of the hole really good (bogging launches). JET and I told him to set up his 2 step and anti lag. He did so and the next run he stripped the pinion gear in his transfer case I believe.

After talking to him he explained that he has gone throug a bunch of these already at 1200 dollars a pop. I asked if there was a more beefed up version that wouldn't break. He responded by saying "if you saw the thing and saw how much metal it is composed of you would wonder why its so weak".

Unless you have something under your sleeve Swanny or just plan on racing from a roll I have a feeling that your are going to be grenading tranfer cases quicker than AJ in bed.

Hands down Supras are far superior vehicles from a racers standpoint. There really should be no argument there if you know anything about perfomance. Yeah Supras are expensive and the interior is kind of ugly. Personally I like 3/S cars, I was looking at buying one actually for a daily driver, which is moderately modded would be great for that.

However if money was no object and I could choose between the two and I wanted to go really fast and not break shit everytime I drove it, it wouldn't take me more than a few seconds to pick the Toyota over the Mitsu any day.

If I wanted to do highway pulls and not have to shift out of third until well into 100mph than I would get a 3/S.:)

But what do I know I drive a GTP as a daily driver.

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from a drag-racers stand point, yeah, rear wheel drive is going to be better for really really fast cars.

but you should try these things they have now called corners - super fun!

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+1 for Supra at a drag strip and on a dyno

+1 for 3S everywhere else

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There are a few solutions in development to the transfer case issues. One is already released and in prototype, and the other (ours) is still in design, and should be getting machined within the next month, if we decide to execute on the project. (Pretty much, if the already existing prototype works, we'll drop it, if their's breaks...ours will be made).
The stealth is good "from roll" it was 130mph 3rd gear at 7k, and I will be reving and making good power to 8500rpm this season.
So in short, yes my sleeves are full :).

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A Supra can still outhandle a 3/S. RWD owns in mostly all aspects of any racing.

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Drifting isn't considered "racing". :p

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Never said it was ;). That is the rice of racing.

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Matt J's car is Spyder. So not only does it have the disadvantage of being a 3/S landbarge, it's the HEAVYEST one you can get! Spyders weigh in around ~4000lbs. He has a 6speed though, Josh and I are running 5 speeds, wich so far just explode t-case housings not the gears, at least until we have a housing that holds.

On the subject of weight:
Supra:1998 6-speed manual Curb weight, 3,445/3,505 (W/O and with Sport roof) http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/98_brochure/

3/S:1994-1999 Curb Weight : 3760 lbs (coupe), 3995 lbs (Spyder)
http://www.modernracer.com/mitsubishi3000gtvr4.html

1999 Eclipse GSX 3,270 lbs.
http://www.engine-power.com/mitsubishi/eclipse_gsx.html

1990 GSX Curb Weight 3145 lbs
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclBuyersGuide.htm

06' Z06 Vette 3132 lbs
http://www.fast-autos.net/makes.html


So yeah, the extra 300lbs over a Supra makes it a complete piece of crap that can't get out of it's own way.

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What do you mean? You can't cut down on some weight buy pulling out the 120lb front seats? The 40lbs rear seats? Maybe decrease some weight from that 60lb front hood?
Let alone the heavy ass rims from the factory.
Yeah you are right, my car will be a 4000lb turd ;).
My heavy turd should weigh about 3600lbs with driver, and cage. Still heavy, but not that bad compared to regular high performance cars. Not economy focused sport compacts, cars that were designed to compete in a racing series.

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Not to mention those 300 pounds can be shaved off with aftermarket exhaust, different wheels, and a carbon fiber hood. Toss in some aftermaket seats and you're lighter than a Supra. What a heavy piece of shit the 3/S is... :rolleyes:

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Gotta remeber you can do all that to Supra's. We still lose. I will just enjoy my slowness.

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Being heavy doesn't make the 3/S a piece of shit in any means in my opinion. Actually its one of its strongest points. I think when it was designed it was not designed to go straight fast in the 1/4 mile per say. I think it was made for more of a touring car that is excellent on the freeway on in corners at higher speeds. I am sure that it has minimal co-efficient drag at high speeds, and we all know they have a really high top end.

When left stock or lightly modified it would be a perfect car and most likely would not break as much. And the drivetrains would not be suspect.

However the fact still remains, when you start talking about making 1000whp in a 3/S. Even if it did weight in a 3600lbs. You would still shred stock drivetrains.

I think Swanny is on the right track by trying to develope a alternative to the stock t-case. If you could develope a drivetrain that would take the power, you would have one hell of a machine.

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That's kind of were I was going. When I say negative things about something I'm spending a bunch of money on I will typically be "saying" it sarcastically. The internet sucks at that.

Just cause it's a little heavier, and a bit weak in the drive train area, most people just say they suck compared to a Supra. Yeah, but stock for stock the Supra's price tag sucks compared to the 3S. DSM's suck compared to Supra's, but how many people here have them?

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Actually if you have seen any of the Best Motoring track events from that period you would see what we are talking about. The GTO and Supra have the same lap times EVERY LAP BUT THE FIRST, the first lap is from a standing start so the GTO takes the supra by .9". The Supra has a slightly faster corner entry and the GTO has a slightly faster corner exit. As far as the straights go, the supra can keep up with the GTO on most. The times the Supra can't are when the straights are longer or higher speed. The faster the roll, the more advantage the GTO has.
Also look at the RIDOX Supra getting destroyed by a nearly stock FD3S to see how pointless the Supra is at cornering. The owner of the Supra (Orido) knew it would happen too. He was happy "the Supra is doing better than I had thought". -He had started right next to the FD3S and was one lap in and could no longer see it.

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The thing that turns people on to Supras soooo much is the fact that the aftermarket is full of overpriced kits to make them look and drive like they do on TV. All you have to do is have a butt load of money and be able to click a mouse and use a phone and you can have a car that will turn heads and hawl ass.

The slogan should be "Hey you can be like Paul Walker and Vin Diesel if you buy all these HKS parts that cost a small fortune".

But then again the fact can't be denied that there is way more bolt on parts for Supras than there are 3/S's. That might have a lot do with the fact is that the motor is more practical starting point when building a high horse power vehicle.

That just means that if you want to modify a 3/S you have to fabricate most of your own parts, especially if you want to stand out from the rest. When you own a Supra it just comes down to who has most cash.

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Very true. The only Supras that do stand out any more are RB26 powered. JUN's Akira was/is really sweet but nothing on it is OEM anymore. The fact that Satsuma of JUN calls the 2JZ a truck motor speaks for the horsepower movement in the after market. He knew the only way to make usable power for it was a stroker kit.

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...not to mention that the in-line 6 is argumentatively the best designed engine in the world for street cars (not talking f1, or racing shit). I have yet to see a 3s motor turn as much hp as a supra motor can, with a stock bottom end..

-A. Swift

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From an independent test conducted end of 2002.
__________________________________________________ _____________
Engine Dyno Tests 6G72~2JZ-GTE

Hello Community. These dyno tests were taken from a live engine dyno using brand new and broken in(50hours) 6G72 and 2JZ-GTE engines. I tried to make the test as consistent as possible with both engines using the same aftermarket parts. The T76 Turbos were swapped and used by both engines to measure any inconsistencies. This was a long test that has been going on for nearly 5 months. I spent over 400hours trying different scenarios, too much to write down, suffice it to say I tried being as accurate as possible. Stock rods were used on both cars. Here are the results.

Stock 2JZ-GTE= 331hp@5633rpm's
Stock 6G72 4b= 314hp@6028rpm's

T76 2JZ-GTE= 387hp@6292rpm's@10.0psi's
T76 6G72 4b= 384hp@6708rpm's@10.0psi's

T76 2JZ-GTE= 571hp@6424rpm's@15.1psi's
T76 6G72 4b= 593hp@6722rpm's@15.0psi's

T76 2JZ-GTE= 682hp@6610rpm's@20psi's
T76 6G72 4b= 714hp@6784rpm's@20psi's

T76 2JZ-GTE= 766hp@6641rpm's@25psi's
T76 6G72 4b= 809hp@6812rpm's@25psi's

Note: More than 2 dyno tests of each pressure was taken and these were the highest HP numbers recorded. Suffice it to say that most of the time the numbers were only different by a maximum of 1-1.5hp. VP Race Gas was used in all tests.

Stock Heads, Blitz 850cc injectors(full sets swapped 4 times between cars), stock valves, stock pistons. Consistent A/F throughout range, same for both cars, no detonation found on 116.

I used a K&N on both engines connected directly to the turbos. I used a custom HKS Titanium 3" exhaust on the 6G72 and the HKS Titanium 4" exhaust for the 2JZ-GTE. Custom 1.75" headers were used for the 6g72 and an RPS Header was used for the 2JZ-GTE.

**Note: no auxiliaries were used, air conditioning, power steering, etc... so HP figures will be lower with these in place**

Joe, I used an SDS EFI to control the injectors. The 2JZ used a Greddy 4 row and the 6G72 used a Custom FMIC. The large fan was blowing directly on the intercooler for testing. Stock Radiators. The temperature was 15degrees C in the room and we inputed this information as well as humidity into the dynomometer. HP Numbers are in SAE.


__________________________________________________ ______________
So oem vs oem the supra wins. But once the psi goes up...i wonder what makes more power?
Try again noob. Oh btw...the 3s has 33 degrees of overlap stock.
I know the 2jz can hold a shit ton of power, but no-one in the 3s community until lately has used anything BUT td04 turbo's. Just this year td05's became popular and people began to discover turbo's by this mystery company called "garrett".

Here is the thread.
linky

T76

78LB/Min, 1128 cfm @ 2PR @ 65%.
93LB/Min, 1345 cfm @ 65%.
38psi max boost determined by compressor rpm
http://ztechz.net/sitebuildercontent...ctures/t76.jpg

Re: swanny's sig
 

you're right, i know nothing. i'll crawl back into a corner now..fuck the world.

-A. Swift

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3/S = teh lose. The End.

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supra heads are nicht so gut, but thats common fact ;)

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Yes, the supra head sucks, or as shane would say "Nothing to write home about".
But then again, 3/s cams suck.
I dunno, we'll just see how much power my shitbox makes this spring.

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is there a reason there were no 3/Ss in JGTC?

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They are obviously in a different league of vehicles. :)

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the FTO was used.
the Supra's used non-2JZ motors.

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Oh yeah, the Supra record is still 980hp on stock bottom end, right?

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nope...it's over a k now...

-A. Swift

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Probably because sticking a V8 in it and converting it to RWD would be a lot of work. ;)

The GTO did race in N1 Endurance but according to Taishi (the guy at the Mitsu cookout with the two yellow 3Ss) they weren't really production cars. Here's a quote of his from 3Si. (I'd love to have on of the N1 cars for all the weight savings they put into them)

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So what you are saying is the puma gto is a 13g powered 3s that is trimed and has fuel mods? How is that dramatically different?

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They replaced major parts of the interior and exterior with lighter parts. If I recall right Taishi said they replaced a lot of the heavier body panels and the doors. I'm sure those three race cars each had over $100,000 into them. A 3000lb 3S would be sweet.

The bolts-on are obviously pretty weak for todays standards.

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More info:

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Sweet ass!

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The horsepower numbers with the 6G72 4b and the 2JZ-GTE are interesting, but it does make sense. I don't think anybody here is saying that a 3/S can't make power, but how usable is the power going to be when you can keep things from breaking?

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I don't know, how useable are dsm's? They constantly break, why bother trying to make power? We aren't shredding gears in transmissions (like shane), we just bust transfer cases and are currently bitching on how completely stock motors don't hold 35psi with twin evo 16g's.
Real problems ;).
Billet transfer case housing, stronger non rusted output shaft, front diff upgrade for safety.
Put in a clutch, back to bulletproof drivetrain (within reason).

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Well considering the fact that there are tons of DSMs in the 10s and some even in the 9s on stock drivetrain I would consider them fairly decent. Everything has a breaking point and that has to do with a lot of factors. The only real problem the 3/S has is that its a touring car. It has tall gears and is really heavy. For a drag car application that combination does not mix in my opinion.

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Really heavy as in 300lbs more than a Supra? Considering its AWD I don't see that being too bad at all.

How is the 3/S being a touring car a problem? It is what Mitsu designed it to be and is damn good at it. It is very stable at high speeds and has no problem negotiating high-speed corners nor getting a good hole-shot.

I really don't understand why DSMers hate 3/S's so much; is the "younger sibbling" jealously really that bad? When it comes down to it, the 3/S is really nothing more than a larger/grown-up DSM.

I'm personally done talking about Supras; they are great in their own regard and pretty much everyone here admits that, but, how many of the 3/S haters have actually had a chance to drive one at great length to get a feel for its true qualities and strengths?

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