Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

That is pretty crazy Shane, I was going to make an almost identical post until I saw yours! Don't believe everything Rick says, he is very convincing. You would be better off putting in a stock 6 bolt with stock bore,freshen it up, and put in 2g pistons and new rings. You don't need rods or forged pistons for the power you will be making.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Also keep in mind a select few people on this board hate Shindley; he has done nothing but great work for many many others (me included).

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I have to say this, I don't hate Rick, I don't agree with a lot of what he does/says but I am sure he would likely say the same fore me. I will say I agree with what JET and Shane posted. Rick has done decent work for many people. The one thing that I will go toe to toe with anyone on is this, you don't put ARP mains in without align honing period. Bad engine building practice. That alone makes me question what else he doesn't know.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Sounds like you should get some repair work done on your car before you keep modding it. Slllow down buddy ;)

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Is that the same as line boring?

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

yep, with the obvious difference of honing to correct size with a common arbor as opposed to removing a lot of material to change diameter. Same basic concept.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Thanks....gotcha. I can see where your statement in post #43 above is very critical then.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Yeah, I don't hate Rick either. If anybody should, it should be me. We actually talked it all out a while back. I would send someone there to have a timing belt, tranny rebuild, or something done (and have), but he is WAY behind the times on his modding. Maintenance or a stock rebuild, fine, but performance stuff I would go to a performance shop.

One more thing to think about, Rick is not a licensed shop so you have very limited forms of recourse if something goes wrong.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I don't hate Rick, but I have talked to him before and he didn't give me the impression that he seems to give most of his customers who might not quite know as much about how an AFC or turbo actually works. He is a person who actually needs to get on somewhere like DSMTalk or Tuners and see how some things actually work in the real world and maybe get out of the mid 90s in his advice.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

You saying a 7 bolt can go to 36 psi and 450 HP or just up to 18 psi?

So what can a 6 bolt do?

How about a 2.4? <My next Block, I hope>

I watch my knock like a hawk, <but that's easy with a remap of the knock count to the CEL with Dsmlink!> and always run only mobil1.

I have a A/T on my 7 bolt which I hear reduces the C/W odds, but that berring #3 statement makes me a bit nervous.

Is there really a big limitation on just how far you can go with a 7 bolt before she deeps 6's compared to pushing a 6 bolt?

So just when can I expect my 7 bolt motor also implode into another mangled pile of DSM shit?

TIA.....


PS: Both Rick and Mike have done great work for "me and my Tsi! the past couple years" I am now here only to learn and drive, which I can't do very well either!

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

You could probably do 36psi on a 7-bolt, if you put in some ARP head studs. You can't judge things by psi, how much actual power it makes, how high you are reving the motor and the amount of knock/detonation are much more important than the actual boost being run. Barton made 450whp on his stock internal 7-bolt. The record on a stock internal 7-bolt is around 550whp. The main limitation on the 7-bolts is the smaller rods, even though they seem to be about the same size at the EVO 8 rods and people are pushing 500whp on those.

The 6-bolts have much larger rods stock. I don't know how much they handle, but Andy Nash on here ran in the mid 500s at the wheels for a long time with his factory internal 6-bolt.

If you do a 2.4l, you would be putting aftermarket parts in it anyways.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I talked to Shindley today about C/W and it's very easy to test your car for crankwalk i guess, when he pulls my engine apart in the next day or two he's checking for exactly what happened to the car, for all we know it could be crankwalk, he doesn't believe so because of how the car sounded and how it takes a good 5-7 seconds to start now, he said that if your car is shoowing signs of crankwalk all you have to do is change the bearing (something like that) and the car will be fine - now if you've damaged the crank - then either you buy a new one or get the 6-bolt, shindley isn't against 6-bolts at all and you and i all know that, right now my $$ situation isn't the greatest and if i were to buy a 6-bolt, get it rebuilt and modded - it's alot more than just rebuilding and modding a 7-bolt. all i have to say is, yes shindley may be convincing - but he knows his shit - he may talk alot but he does know exactly what he's talking about. as for align honing when putting in ARP mains i really like to know more about that before he sends it away to the machine shop, because if it is critical to making my engine better or lasting i would like to make sure he does it, even if he's against it. And please for the love of god, u all know that some of you go to Shindley for advice. Just making sure, are Wiseco pistons, and Eagle rods good? well i know they are but anybody out there think a set-up for a 7bolt 2g that's better?

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I would rather put a stock 6 bolt in my car than a race 7 bolt. DON"T get the race 7 bolt. It wouldn't be much more to build up a 6 bolt if you are set on a race motor. I don't see why you really need a race motor if you are sticking with the 50 trim anyhow. For cw, you can replace the crank bearings, but it isn't going to prevent it from walking. It is more of a delayed death. Eagles and wisecos are good, but I would rethink your plans. Hope you don't plan on using a big clutch for the 7 bolt. If you are on a budget, why would you do a race motor anyhow?

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

i'm not, just building it up a little stronger, this car is a daily driven car that i want to be able to go fast with once in a while and not have to worry about breaking something internally. as for cw, later in life when it does crankwalk i hope by then i will be able to afford a 6bolt and be able to make my car a race motor, for now i'm just want it done. how about this - i'm rebuilding my 7-bolt, what should i do to make it a better 7 bolt? very random>> anyone have a pic of a stock 1g 7bolt head>? up close? also, someone explain to me align honing when putting in the arp mains>> is it an important thing to do when rebuilding an engine>?

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

It could cw right away, that is what you DONT realize. Why waste alot of money on 7bolt internals when youll have to do it again when it CW's. You keep asking how and what to do to make your engine last a long time with your 50 trim. Seriously if its all about money then find a good condition stock 6bolt and swap that in. You will save money, time and be happy in the end versus dealing with an engine that will die sooner or later.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I don't think you will need arp mains and a stock motor should be fine with your setup. I don't think you will be making too much power, maybe a little over 300 is my guess. I'd worry about getting a logger before building a race motor.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

i got a logger, but the thing is, if you fix the the bearing on the cw you will be fine for a long ass time, you check it after that about every 20,000 miles, check it more if all you do is beat the crap out of it. i just for now want my car back and done, in the future when i have alot of money and i put it to my car, i'm just going to buy a 2G GSX with a fully built up race motor. that's my dream right now - some of you fuckers out there have it (i'm jealous, don't take it personal). if and when my car cw, you all can rub it in my face, ok? leave the 7 bolt thing alone, i'm rebuilding it - now, how do i make it better and the align honing - do i need it done for the arp main's, i would love to know.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Rebuild it to stock specs with ARP head studs. There is no reason for you to spend a lot of money on aftermarket rods, aftermarket pistons, ARP mains, balancing, etc. The stock motor can take the power you are making plus a lot more. If your current motor died because of detonation, then your built motor will probably suffer the same fate. You shouldn't have been making even close to enough power to break the motor from too much power and the reason to build the motor is to be able to handle more power. Fix whatever caused this failure or else the same thing can just as easily happen again with a rebuilt stock motor or a built motor.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

2G dataloggers are about as useful as the blinky A/F gauges. He should take the money for the aftermarket rods/pistons and buy something that can log for real like DSMLink.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

That is bullshit. Many people have tried to replace the bearings in a motor with just a little crank walk to fix it. It doesn't work, they still die in a short amount of time. You would be WAY better off putting a bone stock 6 bolt in there than spending the money on a 7 bolt.

I and several others have said it before. If you don't want to listen to our advice, then quit asking. From what you are saying about Shindley, you have totally fallen for what he says. I wish you the best of luck.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Can you make power on a 7 bolt? Yes.
Will it ever be reliable? No.

Take JET and ecoli's advice and do it right the first time.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

That is false, many people have made good power on the 7-bolts w/o incident. Let the kid do what he wants. Its his money and he's chosen the advice he wants to listen to. Is it right? Maybe. Is it wrong? Maybe. Shindley has spend a lot of time with the car and obviously knows more about it than any of us do.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I agree totaly, you NEED to log knock to properly tune you car without damaging it!

And the ONLY way to really do it right on a 2G is with DSMLINK!

Man you'd be way better off with a descent used 6 bolt and a used DSMLINK than a pre-walked, rebuilt 7 bolt with no knock logger!

If it's just a manner of money, then just save your money till you can do the job right, come'on man, don't walk back into the same damm hole your just trying to crawl out of???

Listen to what about 10 differnet DSM gurus are telling you here on this board < but exclude me as I am not a guru, but I'm just smart enough to listen and learn from these guys>, they are really trying to help you out here!

IMHO

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

This is getting old. Build the 7 bolt if you choose to, remember this thread. Come back and read it over and over after your engine fails. You can ask yourself then why you chose not to listen to the advice given. Then maybe you will realize that the people telling you this know what they are talking about. And yes there are a few in this thread with a lot more mechanic/DSM experience than Mr Shindley, regardless of his age.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Thats what I meant

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

just to let you know, even if i got dsm link i wouldn't know how to use it at all, i suck with that kind of stuff, i mean isn't it kind of a hassle using your dsm link everyday? turning on the computer, setting it up, and making sure everything is ok even before you can drive the car?

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Get it tuned, take the laptop out of the car and after that beyond logging, it is not necessary to use it again unless you need to change or test something.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

When I first brought my 2.4 block to Steve at Headwerks (over 3 years ago now) I told him I was going with ARP mains and he immediately told me the same thing, so I ended up just using new stock Mitsu mains. Someone needs to come up with a big list of do and don'ts for 4G63/64 rebuilds. Too much money seems to be wasted on bad rebuilds. In fact lets start the list right now with the number one "Don't":
1) Don't build a "built" 7-bolt motor. ;)

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

what do you mean by that>?

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Did you read any of the previous posts?

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Have you read this thread?!?! That is what every single person in this thread has told you. 3 are from professional shops. Instead you are listening to a unemployed engineer who started working on cars out of his garage to get by. :confused:

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Dude...just get a 6bolt. I'm by no means a professional shop person but i do have a 2g 7bolt GSX. If she ever goes or develops C.W. i'm sure's hell not gonna rebuild it. What's keeping you from just getting a 6 bolt and doing it right? What's tieing you to that 7 bolt so much? You can find 6 bolt blocks for a couple/few hundred bucks or so. And if you do stick with a 7bolt, don't rebuild yours. Somebody here has probably got one laying in their garage for cheap. Buy that until you can get a 6 bolt. If you think you can save alot of money by rebuilding this one, you're mistakenly wrong. By the time you buy rod bearings, cam bearings, gasket kits, honing services, decking and who the hell else know what, you'll have hundreds and hundreds into it. Just going the el cheapo way and throwing a thrust bearing, etc.. in it and putting it back in the car isn't worth the time. Might as well then take the 50 trim off it, put it back to stock and drive it unabused and hope she lasts. I guess it doesn't pay to ask people for advice if you're just gonna do what you wanna do anyway. People wouldn't say to get a 6bolt if they didn't mean it.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

HA! Just fucking forget it guys. This kid obviously doesnt want or need advice, he is looking for reassurance that he wont get. Either that or he is dumber than shit. Let him learn with his wallet if that is what he wants to do.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

I posted right in this thread where he can get a good cheap 6-bolt; the path is laid out.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

ok, u bastards got me, i need to know if anyone has one laying around, i know Kracka has a friend with two and i'm interested, Kracka - i pm'ed you, reply to me if you can. as for the rest of you i'm listening now. happy? this is what i'm going to do, if the 6 bolt that i buy from one of u ise decent i won't rebuild, but most likely i'll rebuild it. tell me what ya'll think.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

i would like to buy the engine from one of you very soon, cuz i know shindley is already pissed about having my car at his house without getting work done on it. i would like to get the 6-bolt sometime on saturday, prom is on friday and i can't do it then. reply to this asap or call me and leave me a message - 612-730-5165

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

If that one falls through, I have about 4 sitting here, Short blocks for rebuilding.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Yep, I have a short block that just needs pistons. It wouldn't hurt to check the bearings either, but they should be ok.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

Hi Jet- For my own knowledge and future. You could use a 7bolt head on a 6 bolt block, correct?? I was gonna get a long block from a guy one time and he had the head disassembled. About 5 or 6 out 16 valve guides were cracked which further changed my mind on doing the project.

And, what do you do as far as the knock sensor goes? I have dsmlink. Is there a place for the knock sensor on a 6 bolt in back of the engine?

Thanks.

Re: 50 trim in - lot's of smoke from exhaust
 

just making sure, i don't need DSM Link correct? cuz you can mod a few things and use parts from your 2g to make it work without having to get DSM Link - i know in the near future i will be getting DSM Link, but for now i know for a fact i can't afford it. what should i expect when i get this car back - i know she'll run good. but as for knocking and detonation and everything, it should be fine without the DSMlink, correct? for all u out there who don't know, i just put an order in for a 6-bolt engine needing rebuilding - ya got me, ok! now i just need help on what to expect when we rebuild this bad motha trucka.