Re: Over revving issue
 

Brian, you ever worked in a tranny much before? The most I've done is replace a couple shift forks. It'd be nice to have someone stop by sometime who knows a little more about what they're looking at inside it, and maybe help see if everything is ok.

Re: Over revving issue
 

Damn, what a shitty way to break an axle.

Looks like you found most of your problems Brandon. Are you going to try something other than a stocker HG this time?

Re: Over revving issue
 

Nope, I've got another OEM Composite one ready to go in. I'm hoping with the L19's, it'll hold better this time. If not, well then time to finally consider upgrading past the OEM composite one. I've stuck with this HG the whole time because it's usually never failed me. This is the one time, and not even sure if it was the HG's fault.

Re: Over revving issue
 

Hope it all goes smooth for you, Im going to be swapping in some L19's as well within the next couple weeks.

Re: Over revving issue
 

Hope you didn't blow your viscous coupling with all that slipping your car had to do to make some forward movement.

Re: Over revving issue
 

How do you check that? I've never dived much into the drivetrain internals, so I really am not all that sure what is normal and what's not.

Re: Over revving issue
 

Tranny is out.

That axle was definitely busted, and the piece is still inside the tranny. I was curious how 'stuck' it was so I poked it with my finger and it slid in 1/2" extremely easily. So I'm assuming it'll come out fairly easily also. Maybe if I can find a big magnet, I can suck it right on out? I think I'm going to pick up a replacement from Checker/O'Reilly right up the street from me. They want $49, and comes with a lifetime warrantee, can't complain about that.

So tranny is out. Where that axle went in, there is grease everywhere, but the tranny seems to be fine. I didn't see any big dings or cracks in the case anywhere. TOB seemed to still be in great condition.

Got the clutch off. All the PP mounting bolts were still nice and tight. It still looks to be in excellent condition, especially considering the abuse it saw at the track on Saturday. Flywheel still looked good. Pulled out the torque wrench and set it for 100lbs/ft, and none of the bolts moved one bit. So they are all still on there nice and tight. The clunking I heard on the way home I'm guessing was just the busted axle moving around.

I removed all the ARP studs, and the old headgasket. Went and grabbed a small taliban razor and started cleaning off the top of the block. I got about 1/4 of the way done scraping the block, and decided to call it a night.

Tomorrow the head is going to my uncle. I also plan to finish scraping the top of the block off, then dropping the oil pan and removing the rods/pistons, and checking the rod bearings. That's my goal for tomorrow.

Here's some pics. Last pic is of one of my front brake rotors. These little babies aren't liking slowing down after those 130+mph passes...

Re: Over revving issue
 

cant you just pull out the opposite axle and poke an extension through to push out the broken axle?

Re: Over revving issue
 

I tried that. I looked through the hole, and thought it looked like the end of the other axle in there, and tried poking it with a screw driver. But it didn't budge. so I thought maybe it was something else and didn't try anymore.

Maybe I will go try again, but with a hammer this time :)

Re: Over revving issue
 

I just went and checked that again. There is some sort of round bar that is in between the axles inside the tranny. I can only get a tiny screwdriver in there that can kinda get around that rod. The axle slides out just a hair, but won't slide out any more than that. I think I'll have to try and get it out once I take the whole thing apart.

Re: Over revving issue
 

Don't the passenger side axles have that C-clip to hold them in place? That'd make just pushing it out mighty hard if it did. That is really impressive, at least to me haha, to break off an axle like that.

Re: Over revving issue
 

It'd be more impressive if it was because of mad powarz. But really it broke because of a dumbass mistake, ha!

Re: Over revving issue
 

Making good progress it seems like.

If you take out the rods/pistons won't you have to re-ring it? Or are you just unbolting them from the crank to check out the bearings? Getting new ARP hardware for the rod bolts or just reusing?

Re: Over revving issue
 

The passenger axle has a C clip to hold it in, so getting that stub out is gonna be a bitch. And the round bar thing you saw is the shaft connecting the spider gears in the diff. Good luck with it!

Re: Over revving issue
 

You'll have to split the tranny case to remove that axle. Like Brian already mentioned, you'll have to remove the differential pin to gain you access to the back side of the axle and punch it out.

Hence why I said thats a shitty way to break an axle. :(

Re: Over revving issue
 

I wasn't planning on re-ringing. I was just going to take them out, inspect everything, and throw it back in just like how I took it out. Hell that's what I did for the other 3 cylinders when I rebuilt that one cylinder. I removed all the pistons, but only re-ringed the one cylinder. And compression is pretty decent.

I have a dumb question though. If the rings aren't in the exact same position as they were when I took it out (say they rotated ever so slightly) is that an issue? Or do they always rotate slightly in the cylinder under normal operation, and it's not a big deal?

Just wondering if I need to take special care in making sure the rings are in the exact same spot when I take them out, and when I put them back in.



Also, does anyone got a ring compressor I could borrow?

Re: Over revving issue
 

you should drive out to craigs store we do get a discount there for style

Re: Over revving issue
 

I believe keeping the same general ring location is pretty important, they shouldn't move around on their own. Otherwise there wouldn't be much point in lining up the ring gaps apart from each other on initial install.

Re: Over revving issue
 

Got the oil pan off, and popped out all the pistons/rods. The #2 rod bearing looked a bit more worn than the others. Enough that I'm going to order new bearings and replace them all just to be safe.

One thing I looked at right away was the piston rings. I had the gaps staggered when I installed them, but they have obviouslly moved since then. 1 piston had both the top ring gaps lining up almost perfect. Are you sure they don't turn somewhat freely during normal operation?

Re: Over revving issue
 

Huh, after reading up about it, I guess they do rotate. I'll shutup now and let someone more knowledgeable chime in.

:blind:

Re: Over revving issue
 

Regardless if they rotate or not, I'd set them to the locations that the piston manufacturer suggests.. as if you were putting them on for the first time.

Re: Over revving issue
 

Got the tranny partially apart. So far nothing has stood out as being an obvious issue, which is good I suppose.

Someone mentioned the Viscous coupling maybe being bad. How can I check that?

Also, after seeing all of this, does anything stand out thus far as being the reason that the car felt like the clutch was slipping really bad? What would have caused that, because the clutch looks to be just fine.

Here's a few pics. I was taking tons of pictures, because when it comes time to put this thing back together, I want some pictures to look at to make sure it's right :)

Re: Over revving issue
 

Yea, with a non-lsd tranny and a broke axle, the other axle/wheel isn't going to get shit for power sent to it.

Re: Over revving issue
 

^^^Beat me to it!

I didn't take the time to read but wouldn't you're snapped axle be the cause of all you're slipping?

Re: Over revving issue
 

While your transmission is apart you should take the opportunity to add a Phantom Grip (or TRE's equivalent called the RIPGRIP).

http://www.teamrip.com/images/RIPGRI...9.07%20097.jpg

I had BM Tranny's version of it in my 1G FWD and it actually made a very noticeable difference.

Re: Over revving issue
 

While your transmission is apart you should take the opportunity to add a Phantom Grip (or TRE's equivalent called the RIPGRIP). I had BM Tranny's version of it in my 1G FWD and it actually made a very noticeable difference.

http://www.teamrip.com/images/RIPGRI...9.07%20097.jpg

Re: Over revving issue
 

Dumb question, but again I'm not a drivetrain guru what-so-ever. How does the broken axle, make the car feel like a slipping clutch. Not just shit for power, but slipping clutch? I would hit it in 1st and the RPM's would just race up, then I'd let off and they'd go back down to the RPM you'd expect them to be at?

Re: Over revving issue
 

Stolen from the interwebs...

A Standard limited slip diff, as fitted to the
majority of cars allows the two driven wheels to rotate at different speeds while delivering the same torque to each wheel. The wheels need to travel at different speeds when the car is cornering as the outside wheel has to travel a greater distance than the inside wheel.

This system works fine in most daily driving situations but this system has faults which will become more apparent on slippery surfaces. For example when driving on snow, one wheel may have little or no traction and hence the torque created is negligible and as the diff
transmits the torque 50/50 between the two wheels, the other wheel gets 50% of next to nothing which is why the car will not move forward.

Re: Over revving issue
 

Watch the video's of MAP trying to go 9's (or 10's can't remember) in their blue 1g. They snapped the rear axle twice and the car would just rev up like a slipping clutch would.

Re: Over revving issue
 

So since the one wheel had a snapped axle, it was like the "slipping wheel in snow". So the torque is very little. So the other front wheel also got little to no torque correct? Makes sense.

But what I still don't understand, is the "slipping". What was slipping? It wasn't just that there was no torque, the thing free-revved like a slipping clutch. That is what I don't understand, and wish I understood.

Re: Over revving issue
 

Since the front diff is open, couldn't a lot of the power be sent to the broken axle thereby allowing it to free-rev?

Re: Over revving issue
 

But it's AWD, so shouldn't the rear wheels still be spinning normally?

Re: Over revving issue
 

Nope, AWD= three diff's. One to split front/rear and a front and a rear to split side to side. Same principals apply. 50% of next to nothing = slightly more. Since DSM's have a viscous center LSD, the VCU provides some resistance and allows the car to drive "normally" untill you try and put "a lot" of power to it.

Re: Over revving issue
 

so all this disassembly, to find out its just a broken axle? ouch. Makes sense though.

Re: Over revving issue
 

ok im kinda drunk so this post is iffy at best as ive only read the past 3-4 posts, but i broke an axle recently, the car would rev up pretty easy while in gear, as if it was a bad clutch or something, once i got some good axles in there its back to normal, i broke a read driver side axle and it really seemed wierd after it broke,

i know this because i drove it for a little bit after the axle broke, the axle broke, but didnt actualy leave the rear diff for aboujt 20 minutes, do it drove just fine, (no shakes or anything) for a little while till the axle fully seperated from the carrier.

dont know if that clarrifies anything for you, but that was kind of my experiance

Re: Over revving issue
 

I had the output shaft splines going into the xfer case strip slightly and it did the same thing, felt like a slipping clutch. Glad that's all it is for you, btw, that ring compressor is still sitting in my backseat. :-)

Re: Over revving issue
 

I wouldn't say that. Again, the head was coming off already, due to suspected head gasket issues. Then while the head was off, figured might as well check out the rod bearings for peace of mind. I didn't like how the #2 bearing was more worn than the others, so I picked up a new set of King bearings from DB on Friday. Plan to put that all back together today after work (so I'm going to be stopping by to pick up that ring compressor steve-o)!

The trans was shipped off Friday to Dogbox out in NJ. He's going to verify everything is OK, and may swap in a known good VC just to be safe, in case there is an issue with mine that we simply can't see.

I should be getting the head back any day now also. So that should be back on by the end of the week. Then just patiently wait for the tranny to come back.

Re: Over revving issue
 

Man that thing is a money pit! lol Good luck with the build. If I were you I woulda have stuck new rings in, since compression seemed a bit lower than it should be.

Re: Over revving issue
 

Why didn't u contact TRE? i thought they built that tranny for u?

goood luck with getting it back together

Re: Over revving issue
 

TRE's site says he's not available for most of June, and that doesn't work for me as I want it back soon so I can be ready for MAP's event on July 10/11. So I sent it elsewhere.