Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

i was watching a party-like event with assorted bands a rappers on MTV the other night, and ohh look who's partying with them dancing with his wife? our new president?

looks like he's getting serious with the country. :) haha

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

This gitmo thing amazes me. Supposeldy we have these "terrorists" who have been detained for what legitimate reason? They have no end date to their detainment, and no evidence saying why they are being held. Of course these people are going to join al-qeada. Wouldnt you want to blow something up if you were being held for 7 years with no charges pressed against you, and being tortured on top of it? Really now, use some common sense in that argument. We created the terrorist you will see come out of Gitmo. We have noone to blame but ourselves for letting Gitmo go as long as it has. Also we have just thrown fucking water on a grease fire and spread this anti-american sentiment all over the place now with Gitmo. I want to see what good it has done. Gitmo never should of been opened in the first place. If they have proof someone was a high up terrorist, then try them in country Iraq, and hang them in country Iraq. This is one area where we unfortunately have to use revolving door justice, and just get them when we can prove it. Without the proof they just become martyrs.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

I say keep the animals locked up. Just because a lion at the zoo hasn't eaten a person yet do you let it free to wander Central Park?

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Other countries have plenty of prisons just like Gitmo, they are just smart and keep them secret. ;)

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Difference being that these arent animals, they are human beings with a sense of reckoning. Any innocent men that were in there, are now terrorist, and who created them. We did. Their familes who used to be against terrorism, are now walking claymores, who did that, we did. But yeah, keep the animals locked up. Keep poking the open wound and pissing off the middle east. That seems logical. Hey, while we are at it, lets just start hanging every man woman and child in Iraq and then having sex with their dead bodies. Whats the harm right? Cuz I know thats where all the terrorist are, is Iraq right? Oh shit, thats right, they are in afghanistan, but see, you people who cant think past the tip of your nose wouldnt know this shit. Put yourself in the shoes of an innocent man in Gitmo. Like I said, you'll wnna blow some shit up too.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

No kidding! Our terrorists camps are probably paradise compared to most other countries' prisons.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Other countries also dont go into pointless wars for oil, and actually care about what the world thinks of them.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

haha, yeah right. Regan. That fuckup inspired bush and his daddy. What happens when you put an actor in the whitehouse? Exactry. He was an actor.

Thank FSM shwarzenegger was foreign born.

But I do agree that these "bailouts" are the wrong idea. Failing businesses need to man up and/or bend over and take it like they should. This weaksauce solution of pumping tax money into corporations that suck dick will never solve any real problems.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

We did not go into war for oil. ugh.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Yeah, I agree with that, if we went to war for oil, we'd have it by now. lol.

Come to think... the price has dropped a lot since summer. Maybe we did go to war for oil... and WON!

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

What was the reason we burst into Iraq then? Cant say it was WMD's, it has been well documented that Bush was advised again and again that there were none, and hindsight has proven that fact too. We either went into Iraq for oil, or we went in to flex our nuts. One or the other.

Or I guess third option is this is truley one of Bush's biggest errors and illogical thought processes. One that to this day he will not admit was a mistake. He is the most arrogant bastard I have seen. "History will [prove me right]" (paraphrased because I forgot the word he used)

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Innocents die to protect the majority population.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

That proved nothing, nor did it add to anything. But thanks for sharing.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

We didnt find any WMDs because they all went to syria, iran and other neighboring countries before we even invaded. You really think they would just leave that shit laying around Iraq so we would find it?

If we went in for oil, where is it?

We went into Iraq because Saddam wasnt cooperating on a nuclear level, and was a threat. North Korea and Iran, are probably going to be next on the radar.

Sure there was some stability while Saddam was in power, but that stability was fear, fear to do anything. You dont think Iraq will be a better place in the future? Things dont change overnight, and we certainly couldnt just up and leave after Saddam went down.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

I believe there needs to be reasonable suspicion to even detain someone. Well they haven't been tried or executed, so I don't see the problem. They are being held until a resonable solution can be determined. Many of our soldiers have been held in similar manners for years. Unfortunally the detainees at Gitmo are in an inbetween state. The world in general does not like how we handle foreign affairs, but never hesitate in asking for help. It really is a double edged sword.

My statement would be, I would not feel one bit of sadness if people dissappeared during transport.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

The WMD's weren't there before the invasion. UN weapons inspectors never found a thing. The only potential threat were the live specimens and chemicals left behind for testing purposes. Also, we should of left Saddam, he was the only one that could control that bat shit crazy region. Being able to strike fear of god into people who don't even care about life is an amazing feat. We will never be able to achieve that stability, because we wont kill an entire family just to punish one man. The only other force that could potentially do that is if we were to let Israel off its leash to just pummel the fuck out of the region. They are the only other ones that effin nuts.

And it is that in between state that unfortunately isnt sitting well with the world at large. We need all the support we can get if we really wanna fight a war against global terrorism. Instead we are pissing into the wind.

And if those detainee insurgents would of just been shot on sight instead of being captured yeah we probably would of been in alot less of a mess, but its unfortunate thats not how the laws of war work.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Regan did a great job of rebuilding our economy the right way after Jimmy Carter put us in the biggest recession we'd seen since right before the great depression.

How exactly did Regan "inspire" the Bush's? I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Because Saddam would not let the UN inspect the sites they wanted to. How many times had Saddam given us the run around? Saddam brought the invasion on himself. If he had cooperated with the UN like he had promised to many times before we would've had no reason to go.

Hell, if Bush Sr. or Clinton had finished the job the 1st two times we were over there we wouldn't be there right now!

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

It was just Bush Sr. Clinton wasnt in office at the end of the war.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Bush = Desert Storm

Clinton = Desert Fox


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Desert_Fox


Like Bush Sr. Clinton never finished the job. But Bush Jr did.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

The job isnt over yet, and bush jr is out of office. Another failed bush.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

I was stating that he suceeded in regiem change where the others have failed. Nothing more, nothing less.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

yeah finding a guy in a hole is a hard job.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

We still havent found Osama... Seems pretty tough. Again, Clinton could have fixed that problem but failed.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

because we have all our focus in Iraq. Yet another reason we need to pull out and reallocate forces to the right area of the war.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

So what you are trying to say is you would rather have had saddam live so he could kill innocent people than keep gitmo open holding terrorists/pow's/etc. to prevent killing of innocent people?

Funny, I don't remember another terrorist attack on US soil after 9/11. Pissing in the wind huh?

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Pull out now and flush all of our progress down the toilet? This thing will be done soon enough, we need to finish the job in Iraq before moving the main focus to Afghanistan.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Yeah, I am saying we should of left Saddam in power. He was crazy, just like that region. He commited alot of horible things, but look at what has happened once that has gone away. A huge power vacuum that even the US military cant help fill. We patrol streets daily, and do our job, and they still IED us. We try to find them but they hide and still IED us. Saddam didnt have that problem, because he would kill the terrorist, then the terrorists friends and family. Kind of hard to have someone seek revenge when they are all dead.

Blah, blah, blah, "another attack on US soil" The same thing could of been said the day before 9/11 about the first WTC attack. So whats your point? Besides, why try to attack on US soil, when they can blow plenty of Americans up in Iraq without all the red tape hassle. We are bringing targets to the terrorists. They have it easy over there. So the apparent cost of a safe home is to let our uniformed services die for your relative protection. Yeah, seems fair I guess.....

And Im not saying pull out today, and leave an even bigger power void for tomorrow, but the longer we stay, without significant gain, the longer they get to take their pot shots at us. And also, Afghanistan was the main focus before Iraq. Afghanistan IS the war on terror. We started that war 2 years earlier, directly after 9/11 attacks. Then we SHIFTED focus to Iraq. For what? You talk about fighting terrorists, then why the fuck did we shift away from the hunt for Osama to pursue Saddam?? What sense does it make??

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

W just wanted to finish what his daddy couldn't.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

If it wasnt for oil, and wasnt for the WMD's then I say THIS had to be the reason. We are slowly narrowing it down.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

So can anyone explain what EXACTLY we have been doing in the middle east these past years? Nobody seems to have a clear answer and its ridiculous.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

This was back in November:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/wo...raq.html?fta=y

There has been significant gain there also, especially after the "surge" in late 2006/Early 2007.


The reasoning behind the invasion wasn't only to find WMDs which Saddam never had(he admitted that he bluffed in 2006 before his excecution), some of you may forget, he was also harbouring known Al-Qaeda members, which has been proven. The Invasion of Iraq was an ill-advised pre-emptive strike on the belief that Saddam had a combination of these two factors.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Have you watched any news the past 6 years? We have been building Iraq up so they can stand on their own two feet, giving them a democratic government, a police force, and a military, oh and not to mention all of the infrastructure that we have helped them build. Governments aren't built overnight you know.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Those were the two smartest posts that have been made yet, but I still stand my ground that we invaded Iraq under false pretenses and it is a war that should not have been fought.

“If George Bush’s presidency were going to continue on through 2012, I think people would be a lot more concerned,” said Karim Sadjadpour, a Middle East analyst at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “Having this administration really lightens the blow for the Iranians.”

I think that says alot.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

I thought politics would be over after the election but I guess I was wrong. That must be because the republican canidate lost. Odds are most of the republicans on this site would have voted for Bush again if he was running. After Bush won last time, the political BS ended until this election came. Nobody complained about all of the stuff Bush did. I am sure this site will be filled with Obama slams the rest of the time he is in office.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Why exactly did you quote me? lol

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Just to let you know you will be fighting a continuous battle

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Doesn't matter who is in office. One side will always just be pissing and moaning about the other. During election, after election, doesn't matter. I personally didn't vote for him, but I still wish him the best and can only ask he does the best to his ability.

But seriouslly, what does any of the last 3 pages have to do with putting our cats back on?

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Everything!!! Them Terrorists Are All About It!!!



Noted.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

No study besides media propaganda and political coverings have explained definitively the causes of climate change. Many scientists do not support the theories despite media lies saying there is a majority consensus. If a scientist speaks against it they are bullied and their funding is magically cut. It is just another way for the elites, giant corporations, and global banks to make a lot of money.

The plan to use pollution control and carbon taxes to stimulate the economy is totally manufactured. Sure jobs will be created but no real benefit will come from the addition of cats on a tiny percentage of enthusiasts vehicles.

And on the side discussion of Iraq...oil nor 911 was ever the cause to go to Iraq. Like many other tragedies like 7:7 it was an inside job. Problem, reaction, solution. (AKA How can we use this to further our own agenda's.) Repeated through history over and over.

Re: Obama's going to make us put our catalytic converters back in...
 

Another enlightened one. How refreshing. Climate change will happen regardless of what we do. Its a course of nature, nothing else. We were screwed from the beginning. I just hope this one isnt one of those pole to pole ice ages.