Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

I don't understand that link you posted, it's this same thread?

And it's hard to keep up when you constantly edit your posts...

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

I hear ya, reminds me of a TV evangelist.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Are their T3 versions on the Holsets? My wife's car has an SC6152 on it, not the SCM version. Just looking at other options, without more lag. I haven't seen the Holsets for cheap anywhere though.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Shane, HTA86 already!

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

I am not putting a turbo that costs more than the car is worth on it.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Just snag a used holset. Have it rebuild for insurance, if you want. And get a t3 BEP turbine housing. You can get rebuildable cores from here for next to nothing. Try to avoid cores with bad wheels. The wheels are fairly expensive. This guy is someone I trust and use and can rebuild them for a very good price. He has great reviews has been doing it for years and has a great reputation. Or you can take to a shop you know. Or you can do it yourself. Or you can get a core that doesn't need a rebuild. They're out there on ebay and GREAT deals can be found on forum classifieds like Dieseltruckresource.com.

EDIT: If you want new you can contact HT Turbo. They had the 68lb/min hx40 for sale for $825. You can sell the turbine housing and make the money to buy the t3 bep housing.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

I want an HTa88...how do they compare? ;)

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Whoa. This got ugly.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Anyone trapping over 132mph with the HX40? Does anyone sell them for a reasonable price?

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

If you are man enough to weld up your own exhaust manifold then there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to diss a 300 dollar hx-35. These turbos have been proven on dsmtuners for a long time.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

proven on dsmtuners? how so? who has actually tuned on them, or run times with them? any reputable shops even use them? just curious, cause all i see coming from that site is more of the same "hype"

-A. Swift

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

But dude it's awsome cause I say so.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

One from the thread I posted: There's one with a hx35/40 (slip in his profile) and one with a hx40 (slip here)trapping 132mph with 2.0L motors.

As I mentioned the most affordable route with a holset is to get one used from the seller I posted. He can get you a holset with good wheels for a very good price. Or go to diesel forum classifieds. Then you get it rebuilt. This is far more affordable because they are rather common in the diesel world.

Or you can contact ht turbo which I linked. They may even be able to get you a holset with no turbine housing, so you can use which ever you want.

The fastest spooling option would be a t3 to mhi adapter plate and run to smaller bep housing, or ask to see if they have any t3 .55 a/r housings left. Its not like the small housing on the hx40 hasn't been proven to much over 600whp:) EDIT: I'd like to add that running an adapter plate will help with clearance with the water pipe since the holset typically runs a very larger compressor cover. Another reason why many feel a holset will be laggy or hasn't produced the results indicative of it's size.

The last two didn't read the thread I posted :) .

More from that thread. GV Autosport ran one.

Only 5 holset users on tuners has ventured to the track out of only about 10 that run them. Guys brag abotu putting them on but never actually do it. You know how that goes. Regardless, every one who has gone to the track has an 11sec time slip. 4 lower than 11.4sec. If t00ners guys can do the above, Imagine what the rest of the world can do, right?

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Alright, I looked through the thread you linked to. Since when is 132mph>132mph? The highest anyone trapped in that thread was 132mph. Someone did make 653hp though, the next highest was 485 on a mustang dyno.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

That was 132mph on some 37psi or something too. There's nothing special about this Holset over hyped stuff....

It's not rocket science...... get a half-decent turbo and run a lot of boost. It will go fast/make power with a good tune unless you're completely retarded and throw a complete junk setup together.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

You stopped reading. Again you're talking about turbochargers you are not willing to read enough about to know their sizes, flow capabilities, nor results. You're partial picture defends your choice. And that's great. Yet, the proof remains.

That was 33 psi with a full weight car. The 37psi was with a hx35 turbine wheel. The hx35 is a smaller frame size than the gt35r. The term hx35 is like the term t04b or t3. What boost would a 56trim compressor have to see to achieve a 600+whp trapspeed with the discopotato turbine wheel? The gt28rs spools as fast as the hx35.

The 'hype' is the spool speed vs. similar flowing turbine wheels. Or flow vs. turbine wheels of similar spool speed. Look at the hx40 results again. Please find a turbo that can run less boost make more power and spool as fast. Look at the hx35 results again. Please find a turbo that can run less boost make more power and spool as fast. Why compare a 600whp garrett turbine to a 500whp garret turbine? A 600whp garrett turbine can certainly reach said trapspeed at a lower peak boost. Why compare a 600whp garrett turbine to a 500whp Holset/BW/IHI/MHI turbine? Unless you don't even know and understand the flow of the frame sizes of the turbo brand in question. Yes, this isn't rocket science. The 'hype' is that I paid $350 for my h1c (older hx35) and bep housing and have a turbo that spools as fast as the 16g it replaces and flows more at less boost than my 16g. Airflow numbers much like a td06h 20g. Here's another h1c user with logs. Using a 2g maf, Bolton turbine housing, stock manifolds, HKS272s, 2.0L at 22psi. Airflow is airflow, efficiency is efficiency, faster spool is faster spool.

There are turbine housing choices for the hx40 that will give just as much lag as the gt35r in the .63 a/r single scroll housing. If you're willing to accept that much lag to reach your goal, then you can see over 600whp trapspeeds with much lower boost than 33psi, respective of the housing choice. It's not rocket science, but not exactly like tetris either.

Oh well. This is what I get for mentioning an hx35/40 when ecoli asked about just the hx40.

Never mind his huge boost leak :) . The most he could get was 26-27psi that day. This is the same guy who trapped 132mph at 33psi.

You missed the other bolton hx40 that did 516whp on a dynojet. They read high, right? Video of 11.08@128mph fullweight car: "Full weight, still had bumpers, power steering, heat". 128mph at fullweight as quite a bit more than 516whp. I know you know where this is, but for any who don't: Stealth 316 HP from et and trap speed.

Please look back. I never said anyone trapped more than 132mph. Where are you getting this? There's only 5 guys out of 10 that have even been to the track. Only 2 hx40s. The rest are guys with the small hx35 turbine wheel.

Someone tried to argue trap speeds. When does 150+ mph with a 600lb lighter car disqualify a holset? . . . Preference does. That's fine. Performance hasn't. The HX40 has proven to deliver over 600whp through trapspeed/weight and dyno. No, it is not rocket science. Nor does my wallet mind the difference I paid for my hx40 in the shed versus a real turbo. Cost versus output is not rocket science either. Airflow is airflow, efficiency is efficiency. And faster spool speed is faster spool speed.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Those calculators give flywheel hp, not whp. I put my known numbers in there, 11.53 @ 123mph and it said I shoud be making 457-492hp, but I was really making 360awhp on a DD. 128mph isn't more than 516whp, even on a DJ.

The DSMtalk timeslips have a spot for whp also, it is a good place to see some other examples. Some people change their hp ratings without a new timeslip though, so if you see something odd, it probably isn'r right.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Isn't anyone at least curious to see how these actually perform for themselves? I am.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

JET, Ah! yes it does. Good point. Lucius is talking net horsepower which is at the clutch.

Further mentioned:

The plots show that Hale's formulas predict a much lower 1/4-mile elapsed time (ET) and a bit faster terminal speed (mph) than is typical for modern street cars. Hale's formulas may be more appropriate for strictly race-track cars that have better traction and drivetrains than most street cars.

Generally, this is typical of a well-prepped car like CB's car when referencing the Patrick Hale formula.

All the cars in the results thread posted have nearly or 100% stock drivetrains. Though AWD increases traction it certainly adds more drivetrain loss than Patrick Hale was working with. And Hale was still working with cars with great 60ft times.

As you can see, actual performance for the most part falls between the predictions of the LRT and Hale formulas, with the Fox formulas doing an excellent job of matching performance when engine power exceeds 500 bhp.

To me, that is a good conclusion; as Hale was working with cars with great traction (modern advancement in traction techniques), but less drivetrain loss. So, it would appear that, for accuracy, the Fox formulas apply here since they are compared with a stockish AWD drivetrain similar to the T/E/L and matched better. These guys havn't done much to alter that basic platform. The Hale formula would be very conservative with an AWD DSM.

I'd be curious what a well prepped DSM could do with one of these turbos.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Video killed the radio star.

Sorry. Been having fun at home. Carry on.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

I am kinda worried I'll buy a Holset and it will be a big POS. I am starting not to want to spend $1500 just on the turbo (FP 3065). I dont know what to do! The Holset from what I've read seems great! But thats the key;what I READ.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Follow the pack, lead the pack, or be a stray and get picked off by the wolves. Pick your poison. With just about every turbo out there someone has built a car that preforms to the best, average and worst of it's capability. Try and be one of the first two. :D

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Get a SCM61BB and call it good.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Well, you have dynographs, logs, and videos. Other than actually running any turbo yourself, what other way do you have to make your decision.

The first video posted was of the bolton hx40 2.0L car going 11.08, 13 degrees peak timing, stock exhaust manifold, stock weight.

Hx35:

Here's now a second video. ford 2.3 guys are happy to get 90% VE with major head work and a very aggresive cam. It's safe to say that the 2valve ford 2.3 doesn't have the same advantages as the 4g63, even though it is .3 L larger, from my personal experience with my T-bird TC. Stock SMALL 12cm^2 turbine housing, each volute is the size of 6cm^2 14b volute. Divided runner manifold makes sure that each exhaust pulse only sees a 6cm^2 volute. 585hp @28psi on an engine dyno:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv1-omYCb9c

Comparison logs of my holset h1c (same turbine wheel as the hx35, 2mm smaller compressor inducer) vs. my small 16g to show the spool speed.

Add these to the dyno graphs and track results on tuners with the bolton hx35.

HX40:

Compilation video of the dyno session of the 653whp hx40 w/ .55 a/r housing. You also get a great view of how fast it spools on the street. Non-billet 60mm hx40:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMC2nPrbJvs

Datalogs of the hx40 in the bep housing showing spool speed. Stock Block/Head/Intake mani, BC272, FP Race Mani, FP Intake, 3" DP w/ 3" Cutout, over 50lb/min at 26psi. 20psi by 3900rpms. You can easily see how it can flow 60ish lb/min at 35psi.

Add these to the dyno graphs and track results on tuners with the bolton hx40.

If you don't have dsmlink, here's the above log:

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

WOW that thing spooled up quick! Much faster than I thought.. To me the hx40 with the .55 a/r housing sounds like the way to go!

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

What kind of boost are people able to hold to redline in these small internal gated bolt on housings?

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Well said!:mj:

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

They are priced right, but I don't think it'd spool up by 4k on my stockish 2L with 272s.

I was thinking about the HX35 with the "shitty BEP housing" but where can I get an HX40 with a billet compressor wheel?

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

I also thought I heard a rumor that the housings are getting hard to find as vendors are starting to run out. Might want to check into that.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Yes you are correct. But to be serious why are we still hassling wheelhop?

-These turbos are cheap because they have avoided the "STREET RACING" mark up!
-They will last. They are running on diesel trucks with hundreds of thousands of miles.
-thousands of people use them on their gas race cars, and just google for ten minutes and you will have the proof.
-It's hard to answer all these questions about spool and specifications because there are MANY combinations and new ones being made constantly.
-Would you like a variable geometry turbo on your dsm? talk to this dude. http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/i...?topic=96770.0


I now have chosen my brand turbo for my build.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

NOpe. The carbon steel ones. But the SS ones are not. They look much better than my rusty a$$ housing.



...The difference between us and a herd of wildebeasts is our ability to reason our way away from the cliff. There's nothing wrong with any turbo that achieves your goal, no matter how many choose a particular brand. You don't HAVE to act like an animal. Good thing no one holds it against one if he/she does. Another human trait.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

I hope you're going for an hx40 with the bep housing. the hx35/40 with the bep housing is not going to do what the scm6176 will do. I doubt the suggester even knows what the hx35 turbine wheel is capable of with certain a/r. However, I don't know many who chose the p-trim wheel (scm 6176) and look for a bolton situation. In such case where bolton friendly is most important, along with spool speed, the hx35/40 with the bolton housing will compare well for flow and outspool the scm6152.

If you're looking at the best flowing scm61, I suggest the straight hx40. It spools to 20+ psi before 4100rpms and flows as much as the scm6176. There isn't an scm6176 user that can claim that spool speed and the same results at the wheels.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Wheelhop, do you work for Bullseye?

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Hmm, I was fine with the ~4000 spool of C3L1CA's FP3065, that's kinda what I was wanting. My old car had a Buschur 20G, it would spool around 3600!
My goal honestly would be that magic 400awhp on a dyno dynamics with E85 on a stockish 2.0L. I also don't like the idea of buying a turbo twice. 4000rpm spool is ok with me. Suggestions everyone?

I was thinking
Holset HX35 with BEP .55 BRAND NEW
or HX40
FP3065

...uh thats it...

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

E3 16G + 75 shot?

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

You could reach that goal with a 50trim on E85. If you're bent on going Holset, then just find one that flows a similar amount of air as a 50trim.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

haha, Yeah, but I want something I can get more out of later.

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Come on Kevin.. Just go with the hx40 with the .55a/r. Just watch the end of wheelhop's video.. That thing spools fast as hell for what it's capable of. I don't really see how there is this much debate about it. And same to you Kerry!

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Why is my name brought up again? Kevin ride in my car and tell me if you like the BB scm6152, you will!

Re: Opinions on the Holset HX40 Turbo
 

Hx40 w/ bep .55 a/r housing will spool 20+ psi by 4Kish. The hx35 will do 400awhp easily especially with e-85. And give you more room. But you may want more room than 500whp, right? It depends on how much head room you want really.