i did not feel like dropping money into a LSD and slicks, when AWD is so much easier. Plus i wouldn't drive around town with slicks on, and I want something that'll tear it up around town as well. So I decided AWD was the better approach.

and you would be right. i'm running 10 psi everywhere in a ghetto'd together gvr4 contraption but its already 100x more fun, especially in the snow!

FWD is overrated. The only reason people think they are such "highway monsters" is because of the weight advantage. A AWD weighing the same as a FWD would make things about equal minus gearing, (if they both had the same amount of power). Fuck FWD period :fworld: 2500lbs, here I come :beer:

From my experiences with FWD, I also think it is over rated. I dont think the difference is that great even from a roll. While racing I would much rather have the lead in the begining than play catchup in the end. Hell, in AWD, you can let off if you see them catching you and still say you won (only with friends though) just like the T/A story. Just because a car is FWD doesn't stop me from racing from a roll.

BTW Chris, you better head to the ATM before you race so you can get my money for when I beat you :bounce:

Can another FWD brother get in on this action? ;)

I think AWD is overated. That's all anyone ever talks about or gives praise to. I wanted AWD for like a total of 17 minutes in my life probably. Again, I'm not trashing it, but it's just not for me and what I wanna do with the car. I am slightly interested in buying a AWD 1g or something, but not sure.

I've owned both FWD (w/20G) for 3 years of Crazy fun (but expensive)

To: 1year of AWD (2/20G) and not so much fun (but inexpensive)


I raced the living hell out of my GS-T. Every night you could probably find Nash and myself out someplace doing something Stupid with our cars. Weather it was making video's, BrnOut's, top end runs, What ever, And had a blast doing it.

I'm sure my AWD will someday give me the pleasure my FWD did. But anyone that knows me or has raced me knows or should know my FWD was considerably faster then my AWD is now.

Ya I can now launch the car and hang from the start but I lost my top end advantage. Once the start was over it usually was a come from behind victory "almost" always.

I've raced the same people in both cars and people I used to walk away from in the FWD I'm either now tied with or am now loosing to.

Granted I when I swapped to the AWD I haven't taken it to the dyno yet. But figureing as we swapped the entire motors and everything else. the previous tune should have been somewhat close?

Anycase I wish I had both. Highway driving and turns the FWD rocked the house. From a stop there just is no comparison AWD all the way.

I will say this though after taking turns in my GS-T at 160mph and compared that to the handling of my AWD at 120mph.

I doubt my AWD will ever see over 120-130mph unless I know I have enough room to slow down to 80mph for a turn.

There just is no comparing my 2 cars in the turns my FWD just pulled itself around the cornes where as my AWD feels like it's trying to push me off the road.

I agree with Chris 100% as far as Highway/top end and turning.

-brian
ps: wheel hop - strongly suggest getting Polyurothane motor mounts. after buying my set I didn't break another tranny. (previous to that I broke 5 in less then 7 months) from 1/4 Racing at the tracks.

Wait until you actually have a lot of power and see what you think.

i just wish i knew what broke my trany... i barely even broken the clutch in only about 500 miles on it at the most... and my center dif just came thru the housing, i did loose about half the oil thru the axle seals tho..

-E

Wait until you actually have a lot of power and see what you think. [/b][/quote]
That's the thing. I dont want a tremendous amount of power out of the GST. I still think they are overated, cuz everyone always wants to talk about how much you gain with them, and hardly the losses. If you notice before, I did say I was thinkin of picking up a AWD. If I do, that will be my power car. The GST is going to have some decent power and some looks. That's all I wanted from it.

FWD sucks for turning too though I can admit my prelude had alot better handling, but it also was piss slow(slow = easier to control)... Another thing is the faster road cars are RWD and AWD cars that can push themselves out of the corners with skilled enough drivers instead of trying to pull themselves out like FWDs do.

Wheel hop.

I broke probably the most tranny's out of anyone in MN (besides brent r) and maybe "Jet"

Broke 5 in 7 months.

Anycase usually was on a 1/2 shift. (and usually there was some sort of grenading involved - so no rebuilds for me)

I'd say 95% of the time it was 1/2 or 2/3 gear that chipped a tooth and then that metal fragment started ripping through the tranny till it eventually imitating a batting cage pitching machine. (ie: hit a gear then then get shot out the side of my tranny)

2 Times my Center diff. Gears chipped during one of these miss haps.

But 3 times I had my phantom Grip LSD in and the center diff didn't break. The other two the center differs broke.

Anycase my final set up that stopped breaking tranny's for me:
-Alignment - wasn't until this last tranny that I finally got a proper alignment done with paper work (paid to have it done once before and was told it was done but never recieved any paper work noting changes etc)
-polyurothane motor mounts
-Phantom Grip LSD
-Stopped using GM Syncro mesh in exchange for 75w-90 motor oil
-Stopped going to the 1/4 tracks (each time I went with in 1 week my tranny would explode)
-On the Streets I stopped speed shifting. (spent that extra second to shift vs. having to replace a tranny)

-Brian

That's the thing. I dont want a tremendous amount of power out of the GST. I still think they are overated, cuz everyone always wants to talk about how much you gain with them, and hardly the losses. If you notice before, I did say I was thinkin of picking up a AWD. If I do, that will be my power car. The GST is going to have some decent power and some looks. That's all I wanted from it. [/b][/quote]
Side note.

I felt with my HRC S20G and 322whp on pump wasn't enough HP for my car.

I was looking to upgrade to a 60-1 turbo before my little house hold renters mishap which just made me give up on that particular FWD.

-brian

FWD = burnout
AWD = tight little shitties if you have power and know what your doing.
RWD = Ownz all for all out drag racing in the long run.

I was just about to add the same reply you did Allan.

Ha, nice thread. I am hoping to find an AWD, but if I can't, I won't walk away from a nice FWD for the time being.

I'll have a bone stock 95 TSi AWD for sale real soon. Keep watching the For Sale section.

AWD: burnouts are the coolest.

Sorry man, I'm actually trying to find something before Wednesday. Thanks though. Noah

Like Steve said, my car was fast. Oh well, my loss is John's gain I guess ;) For the corners I would take FWD over AWD anyday of the week. So did RRE and Archer if my memory serves me correctly.

so ud choose understeer?

AWD understeers as bad or worse. Same basic layout, but with more weight over the front tires. There are several different ways to do AWD, we got hosed on ours. Its NOT the kind of AWD that helps handling on dry pavement.

AWD understeers...FWD doesn't. I actually have my rear swaybar set up for a bit of oversteer.

well i am going to have to disagree. I have no actual paper proof, but i feel my awd talon has less understeer then my gst had. but if you know 100% for a fact then i guess u are right and im wrong

ok so being the type of person i am, i always wanna learn and know more, so i had to look into what u said about the whole awd understeer. Looks like i was wrong. I don't agree with TalonTSIdude who said that FWS DOES NOT understeer. I had understeer issues all day long with my gst if i tried to take a corner too quick. I have yet to have an understeer problem with my tsi awd, but i haven't driven it as hard as i drove my gst yet. But I stand corrected, even though i don't totally understand how an AWD would have more understeer at certain times. But hopefully i will figure out why it is like that in my never ending quest for knowledge

Wheelspin creates understeer obviously... That's what you are probably talking about with a FWD having understeer.

The way to correct understeer in an AWD is to stiffen up the rear suspension... Bigger swaybar and stiffer springs and shocks. Softening up the front in proportion to the rear also helps turn better and increase oversteer.

not only wheelspin, but just trying to make sharp turnswhen going somewhat fast, id often find myself still going straight while trying to turn.

I've done that several times in my FWD but for the most part I was trying to. And usually done around 80-100mph. (ie: turning to the inside of a turn and then drifting outside coming out of a turn)

-Brian

Archer Ran AWDs. RRE has run both AWDs and FWDs. Like in the way it takes some work like suspension, motor mounts, LSD, etc to get a FWD to get better traction, you have to do some suspension work on the AWDs to help them handle better. There is a reason AWD has been banned from numerous racing series. An RRE sponsored 2G AWD won the road course portion of the SCC Ultimate Street Car Challenge this year, beating FWDs and RWDs. :bowdown"

I didn't want to say anything more on this topic but man, Shanes comment sure shut everyone up. :bowdown" :bowdown" :bowdown"

Shall we say 2 races for money? One at Opus and one on 394/12 out in Wayzata/Minnetonka?

Shall we say 2 races for money? One at Opus and one on 394/12 out in Wayzata/Minnetonka? [/b][/quote]
I'm game, lets do it.

Call me when ya do it. I wanna see. Remember, I didn't say anything about AWD handling well. That is what the old integra was for.

Shall we say 2 races for money? One at Opus and one on 394/12 out in Wayzata/Minnetonka? [/b][/quote]
I'd be down for this in a few months.
Stealth does quite nicely at opus, despites its bulk.
45/55 power split helps :).

Actually Archer did run FWD's for several years. The only reason was because they outlawed turbo & AWD in the class though. When they had the choice they ran AWD's. There must be a reason for it!

I'm game, lets do it. [/b][/quote]
Come spring we shall...the 2 races will be for equal money.

I'll PM ya ;)

I'd be down for this in a few months.
Stealth does quite nicely at opus, despites its bulk.
45/55 power split helps :). [/b][/quote]
Damn dude , do I have to beat you again? :stick: :bounce: ;)

How about a 3rd race? You know the one where I will show what AWD is really all about?

Nope, I'm not that stupid :) I am not going to deny the fact that FWD can't launch worth anything. Hell, I get out-launched by most Hondas at the track. The fun part is chasing them down! 16.3 @ 107 versus the Vee-Dub was my favorite of all time.