Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

The Christian values that harm no one are very strong in the Catholic church that I am actually a part of.. Lots of priests going to prison lately.

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

Oh Tom, its a new age,... remember? History has been rewritten to tell you the crusades that happened centuries ago where an attack by the Catholic church when in reality it was in response to Muslim attacks on Christians.
Kind of like what's going on today,.....

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

And are they going to prison because they followed those values,......?

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

America was founded on the basis of religious freedom, at least according to the Constitution. The word "Christian" isn't anywhere in any document describing our government.

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

Wait, founding fathers said we should built the country's foundations according to a church?

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

The Crusades
The Salem Witch Trials
the 30 Years war (40% of the population destroyed mostly in germany)
Various wars vs Protestents
1648 Chmielnitzki massacres in poland (200,000 jews slain)
Atrocities against Native Americans, from genocides to taking children and putting them in white washing schools in Oklahoma which happened against a large number of the midwest indians.
There have been MILLIONS Exterminated and lives ruined due to your christian values and history, and we are not talking about just old time history, we are talking fairly recent history, however christians sure are quick to wash over this and act like it didnt happen and wont happen again.

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

I know Tom,... those evil ten commandments,.... what where they thinking?

And why do you say, "your"? I didn't write them. But please explain what was so wrong with them,.... please.

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

They are commandments set in a specific religion. So you tell me if these are valid for all religions and people without religion.

1. I am the lord thy god. - Cant get any more specific than that
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me - Uhm yeah
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image - Hmm that seems like an islamic passage about muhummad
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain - God Dammit, that is against my free speech.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy - But football is on sunday
5. Honour thy father and thy mother - That seems pretty logical, but you didnt need to tell me that
6. Thou shalt not kill - I guess christians of history just skipped this one
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery - Not a whole lot of christians care about this one either
8. Thou shalt not steal - Could have gotten this on on our own
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour - Dont lie to your neighbor, sure.
10. Thou shalt not covet (neighbor's wife) - Pretty much the same as adultery but oh well.
theres 11 because depending on which account you follow the first two are intermingled.
So tell me, how is this not mixing church and state as per the rules outlined in oklahomas constitution.

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

Very simple, the "state" is not forcing you to follow them, nor are they making you follow a specific religion, which is what the "separation of church and state" was about. What they are is nothing more than examples of what the founding fathers used as guiding principles to draft the constitution and are a part of American history all the way back to before 1776, not centuries before that for crusades, etc. So drop the white guilt, the religious guilt, the immigrant guilt, the Indian guilt, the Crusades guilt, the Confederate guilt, .... we forgive you.

Geeez, with all this anti-religion animosity, I'm really starting to wonder if you were molested by a priest while on the crusades or something the way you go on about it?

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

Ten commandments = Christian beliefs. If they are okay, then Buddhist precepts are also okay as well as Muslim laws. Since those who think the Christian beliefs are okay, but nothing else is okay, then a state of intolerance exists.

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

Ah, but the difference is that the Buddhist didn't found this country using Buddhist beliefs, nor was it Muslims using Sharia law. Christians did using Christian beliefs, they are our history and there is nothing wrong with that. Did they not teach you that in school? That's why when you go to India, you see Buddhist beliefs, not Christian beliefs. So by your way of thinking, India should take down the Buddhist temples so as to not offend migrant Christians? And there is no state of intolerance, that's made up leftist garb. You are free to practice any religion you like without government interference.

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

For the sake of argument, let's say America was founded on Christian beliefs. There are currently and historically a significant number of people with other beliefs that are citizens. They are all part of the history of America. Are you saying early history trumps recent history?

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

No. What I'm saying is that America's history is what it is. Early history vs Recent history, what does that even mean? Nothing recent has anything to do with the founding of this country and it's ideals. And that's what those monuments and plagues and statues are all about.

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

Okay, if America actually was founded on Christian values, that would be a fair argument. I personally don't believe it was founded on Christian values and was taught that in church, but not in school.

The 1797 Treaty of Tripoli says this “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen.....

It was signed off by President John Adams in 1797 and ratified unanimously by the senate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

I didn't say the country was founded on the Christian religion, I said Christian values and there is a difference. The founders thought highly enough of what Christianity stood for to use those values as guiding principles.

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

But did the gov. Pay for it?

I know several of the monuments here were privately donated.

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

Satan crap - resounding hell no I would be "offended". But that's because I dont agree with whay he stands for. And that also goes for religions that preach hate. And promote killings.

Scientology - i dont know anything about it other then the big bang theory is what i always thought that is what they believe. And the answer to that would be yes, but since we are taking all religion out of our gov.

Then put this stuff in museums or a dedicated building.

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

Edit - it double posted

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

I guess I was the only lucky one to travel as a child all over the world.

And yes our bills look just like what poverished countries I have traveled to. Money looked like back then

Re: removal of monuments from government property
 

I'm not quite sure I see the distinction. What values are we founded on that are Christian?