Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

Well, my friend went on the dyno with his RS-T and made 210 hp and 214 lb tq at 6 psi at the wheels. That already makes the same as a stock GS-T's hp at the crank. So, if you think about, yes I can beat a slightly modded GS-T. I have done it before.

I plan on rebuilding my engine with some forged pistons and rods and then get a few fuel upgrades and I will be boosting around 15 psi, which should equal around 300 whp. The 420a is a more modern design compared to the 4G63. Sure, a stock GS-T is going to make more power right away, but it doesn't take much on an RS or GS to make it right up there with it.

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

It was just easier for me. But like I said, I had friends who were CONSTANTLY showing me things about them. And I did WAY more work on my 4g63t then the 420A.

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

your gonna make more power out of a 4g63...because its already built for a turbo. 4g63 parts = dime a dozen. and BTW 4g63 is easy as hell to work on... oh and having a turbo'd eclipse/talon is better because over all the stock suspension ect. is better than an RS. You get more bang for the buck with TSI/GSX/GS-T

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

What is the difference in suspension between a GST and GS and RS? Only thing different is they have rear disc brakes on a GST. I already have my suspension upgraded anyways. All 4 cylinder engines are easy to work on, it's just what you are used to tinkering on. I find it easy to work on my 420a, but when my friend's bros GS-T was having problems, we could figure it out fairly easily. If you know what to look for in general, it's usually easy to figure out problems.

I guess it's just where you live for parts because down here I can find many parts easily for my car. The 420a was also used in the Sebring and Avenger cars and also some Neon parts are interchangeable.

I'm not here to start a war between 4G63 and 420a. I'm just here to help people out with what they want to do. IMO, a 420a is not a bad engine at all. I've had my car for over 2 years now and over 30,000 miles driven and there hasn't been ANYTHING (knock on wood) that has gone wrong engine wise with it. It has been my best car i've owned. Even after turbo'ing it, she still is kickin.

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

im not hating on a 420a... im just saying the better route is to begin with an already turbo'd eclipse/talon... that way you can buy other things first other than going straight into a motor rebuild and having to buy a turbo kit... thats lots of $$$. i suppose if he already has the N/A car then maybe it is maybe it isnt. Personal choice.

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

man a 4g63 is an awsome motor i love gs-t's. but i have what i have and thats what i got to work with. and totaleclips_05 he pretty much out lined what i am doing, forged pistons and rods a total bullet prof re-build is what i am going for. i havent seen personaly a bult up 420a so that is what is sparking my flame for this project! and my GS has all four disc brakes i freekin love it! and if down the road i get board i will try and attempt a 1g to 2g swap! all of my plans are not going to happen at once! i am pretty much geting the basic out line of where i am going to start thas what this whole topic was supposed to be about.

thanks for all of the input KEEP it comein i like hering what people have to say about this topic!

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

Hey blesi660r, if you check out some of the threads on DSMTuners in the 420a section, a guy just recently made about 450 whp on the 420a with mostly tuning as the major modification. The 420a responds extremely well to boost surprisingly. He also ran a mid 11 I think using stock axles, no LSD, and slicks. He has videos and slips to prove it all. He also ran 16 psi on a stock engine from valve cover to oil pan for a whole year before he decided to build up the engine. So it pretty much comes down to how well your tuning is for your car. He is running a Hahn Portfueler for tuning and his name on tuners is awddynamite.

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

GL on the build..

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

I'm new to this site, and don't want to come off on the wrong foot but...

Turbo kit: $1500
Built motor: $1200
MSnS: $350
Wideband: $300
Axles: $500
LSD: $1000

Those are all rough estimates based on my knowledge thus far. However, those mods should easily propel the car into the 12's with a fairly experienced driver.(which isn't hard to achieve with a bit of practice.)

I have a 420a-T and am the one Total Eclipse is talking about who put down 214 hp on the dyno with stock block at 6 psi.

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

Not the 12's unless the turbo kit comes with fuel upgrades(fuel pump, bigger injectors, fuel pressure regulator and some sort of AFC not including the missing link). Than there is the exhaust system you will be needing because the stock exhuast is restictive. Than there is tuning. Good price on the motor build but I don't think you can get a fully built 420a for that price. Maybe a short block. So, honestly how much have you put into you 420a-T to get 214hp and what are your mods.
Have you got a chance to run a slightly moded 4g63t? If not would you like to run one?

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

^ agreed , maybe you should try running a slightly modified 4g63t you might just be disappointed. ;)

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

welcome to the site! thanks for the info! how much boost can the block hold thats what i am woundering the most, forged internals are in the very near future along with some crane cams i know they can handel tons of boost but will my block beable to!

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

You can include those costs with the turbo kit. Walbro 255 is about 100, SFMU (which you can tune with basically) for about 200-300, injectors (He recently picked up some Accel 30lb injectors for $40) are about 200 brand new if you can find a deal. Missing Link or FCD is roughly 20-40. Can pick up a Tsudo 3" exhaust for 200-300 shipped (basically Apexi N1, but better). Motor build all you need is lower compression forged pistons and some rods and you are in business. It has been proven to handle 15+ psi with just those. You can get those for around 1000 and if you install them yourself, you can save some money there.

Yes we have run a slightly modded GS-T. His brother is running 15 psi and we can both beat him. You all say you aren't talking down the 420a, but really you are. I agree that the 4G63 is a good engine, great engine actually. It has been proven time and time again to take beatings and come back for more. People assume the 420a has no potential though because it originally is a NT engine and made by Dodge/Chrysler. If me personally had about 5-6 grand and I could either get a RS/GS or GST, I would definitely go with an RS/GS. Besides the fact that DSMCrazy's bro has had numerous problems with his GST and my cousin as well just had his GST (with brand new rebuilt 6 bolt, brand new EVO3 16g, etc.) shit the bed, I really don't want to take my chances. Also, you can't really find a GST for under that price that is in good condition as you can with the RS/GS. If you can, that soaks up most of your cash because it will probably be right around that price. You can find many RS/GS's around 2-3 grand nowadays if you look hard enough, I know you can down here easily. That leaves you with that much more to spend on upgrades and maintenance if need be.

Sorry I typed so much, just trying to get my point and views across to everyone.

You can find most of these answers by visiting 2gnt.com and DSMTuners in the 420a section. Do a little researching and you will find more info than you can stomach haha. These are both great resources for info about our cars. Make an effort to do a little searching before you post though. Most of the guys on there are very knowledgeable and have probably heard your questions a million times and get a little aggitated when they have to keep repeating themselves.

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

Each motor is different. Most people don't go over 8 psi, and that's with a 12:1 FMU and walbro 255 on stock injectors. With upgraded injectors, S-FMU and the walbro you can get up to probably 10 safely(granted compression #'s are good) but that's still considered pushing it..

Like total said the walbro 255 is normally what people go with in the kits and they aren't too expensinve. Also that deals are availible for injectors for not much and the S-FMU is a common purchase when going turbo. Especially for those with serious plans of rebuilding.

As for the AFC, that's what MSnS is (Megasquirt and spark). That's the tuning program that nearly all big powered 420a's are running. As for the actual tune, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to use megasquirt. There is the megasquirt forum as well as the 420a management forum on DSMtuners to read up on, not to mention 2gnt.

Well the 420a head was designed by Lotus, and is much newer than the 4g63 head. Not much really needs to be done to the head...Not for a good while. Hahn reached the 11's with their 420a running a completely stock head.

At the time of my dyno my mods were:

Garrett/aiResearch T3 60 trim
Ebay manifold
2.5 turbo back exhaust
12:1 FMU
Walbro 255 lph
2g SMIC

6 psi

As for money, now I've probably put around $3000 total(mods) into my car, that's just a rough estimate though..

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

People are just saying that the 4g63 is a better bang for the buck. You can make over 450whp on stock internals. Save the money for the rebuild and just upgrade to a Tsi, not to mention you could go AWD!

There is nothing wrong with the 420a, the 4g63 just has more possibilities. You could put down 214 whp with $300 in mods with a DSM.

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

Show me a 4g63 putting down 450+ at the wheels with some proof it's running stock internals..

As for the second part... Re-read what you typed...

He already said he's working with what he's got. The 420a.

PS: Stick with the 420a

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

http://www.rizzottiracing.com/images/frontleft.jpg

http://www.rizzottiracing.com/

stock 4g63 record, 585awhp, 10.5@133

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

also, a fellow on this very board by the name of Nash had his stock motor'd daily driver talon up to 550whp for years.

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

You're kind of rude.

If he wants to stick with the 420a, good for him! It would be a good project! But as they have ALL said so far, 4g63t is more bang for the buck simply because you can pay less and get more. Its like Target! Persoanlly, I don't think any of us would buuild a 420a, but hey to each their own! All I'm saying, you might as well be building a Neon! I should know.

Re: big bore kit for 420a
 

There have been numerous 4G63's that have put down 450+. Sell your car. Oh yeah and don't get too mouth buddy, we don't know you.