Originally Posted by dumb_ricer

Okay, first let me say that I do believe spearco makes the best core's as far as intercoolers go. They ARE proven on many racecars.

Now I am going to attempt to stir the pot a little bit.

Does anyone here have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that a spearco core significantly reduces intake temps more than a similar sized "ebay" intercooler. Beyond that, do you have proof that in the real world it is actually making a difference? Like drop in ET's, higher MPH, significantly less detonation, you get the picture.

From what I have seen, some of the "ebay" core's look IDENTICAL to a evotion intercooler core, down to spacing on the fins and sizes of the tubes.

And, if we want to go even farther then that. Lets say a ebay core makes 500whp on a car, and with a nice spearco core it makes 520whp, is it really worth the extra 300plus dollars for the spearco?

Originally Posted by Speedfreak

Some of us who have actually dynoed these intercoolers on customer cars, who actually have documented experience with these, also can not fully disclose what cars they were on, and what their details are. Why? Because thats their(car owner) business, and its up to them to post up relavent info.

It's not good business to dyno peoples cars, then get online and bash them, or their setup publically. So all we can do is give solid advice, without disclosing too much, then it's up to you guys to do what you want.

Originally Posted by dumb_ricer

Everyone has seen similar setups that one makes way more power than the other one. You can't chalk that up as one thing (intercooler). Usually, one guy builds on a budget, has a similar setup, with slightly less money into each part, and ends up make 30-40whp less.

A lot of communities also get extremely opinionated/biased about certain products when in fact there might be a better option out there. Wiseco pistons come to mind. Wiseco is a fantastic piston manufacturer, and makes a lot of other companies piston blanks, but there might be a better similar priced option out there.

As far as intercooler core's go, there could very well be little difference between a spearco core and a lets say XSPower core of the same size, if any difference at all. I personally believe there is probably a 3 to 5whp gain on a 400whp car going to the extremely more expensive core. I have seen spearco cores perform well, and I have definitely seen "ebay" intercoolers make the same amount of power as expensive intercoolers.

I have heard enough heresay on people saying that it is well worth it to buy the more expensive product. It is not always true, and until I see otherwise, there is no reason to believe there is a lot of power to be made by going to a "better" intercooler.

Originally Posted by niterydr

It really depends upon what you consider better. Are you looking for a better cooling charge? less pressure drop? better air penetration (less c/d)?


Tube and Fin cores allow air to pass through them easier. This allows for a cooler charge to make it to the radiator (in a fmic application) which will help aid in the prevention of overheating. The reason they do so, is due to design. Where-in a bar and plate (and a plate-tube and fin core) are more squarish, the tube and fin core almost 'points' outwards, thus piercing the air easier.
A tube and fin core makes a 'V' while the bar and plate make an '[]' shape and the plate-tube and fin makes a 'W' shape. Therefore they rank in order.
1) tube and fin
2) plate-tube and fin
3) bar and plate.
This is in the c/d category as well as cooling running engine factor. Granted how the nose of the car is shaped will change the efficiency and mounting method of the intercooler and radiator greatly. The more direct of a path airflow has to the intercooler, the greater the efficiency. To thick of a core can sometimes 'trap' air from getting through it, as well as to drastic of a mounting angle. These problems can be overcome by allowing for more surface area in a trade off of thickness.

Next section...how the air moves through the intercooler.

The faster the air can get through the intercooler core the better. This pretty much sums up 'pressure drop'. When the air has a hard time dividing up through the runners, pressure drop goes up 10 fold. Plate-tube and fin cores are the best in this situation. They allow the air only once choice, that is to split and enter the core. This is usually based on the manfacture, but mostly the plate-tube and fine cores result in the least amount of pressure drop. Second in this category is the bar and plate. They sometimes make the air do a 90 degee split then enter the tubes, but it usually works out. Lastly the tube and fins are the worst. Air usually has to do a 180 when it doesn't grab a tube right away, bounce back against the endtank, and go back at the tube again. Not the greatest idea when it domes to pressure drop. Manafacture methods can sway these results on way of the other, but this is in general.
So.. when it comes to pressure drop.. Plate-tube and fin #1, followed by bar and plate, then tube and fin in a distant third.

Next we actually talk about cooling.

Bar and plate are by far the best at cooling an air charge. They displace more heat then the other two examples widly available. A few changes within the manafacture method will change the outcome, but overall bar and plate is better at getting rid of heat. A properly made tube and fin core can beat out a plate-tube and fin core as well as a bar and plate, but overall most manafactures don't construct them correctly and when they are, the usually cost quite a bit.

Actually I am getting tired of posting so i'll sum it up.
There is no better one. It really comes down to a multitude of options. Bar and plate cores are good overall if constructed properly. Granted they are the most prone to leaks, if the endtanks aren't attached correctly, but overall they are better. Plate-tube and fins are also awesome cores. Tube and fins can be the best, but usually aren't due to the expense of making them correctly.
I didn't even get into the other very very important aspects of intercooling, like endtank design, fin design and shape (louved vs straight...spacing, amount of fins etc)..piping sizes, coupler use..bend radius's..etc.
Most of the time the only hamper on awesome intercooling is money. That is of course if you don't go insane and use to large of an intercooler.
That being said, a few manafactures out there stand out. Also try to find out of the 'pressure drop' advertised is static or dynamic. Static is best defined as 'flow bench aquired' pressure drop numbers where dynamic actually is closer to real life and takes into effect the entire design of the intercooler, from basis (tube and fin vs bar and plate), to fins..etc..
That being said, here are a few manafactures and what I think of them..
Spearco intecoolers.
They are widely available and are actually good stuff. They have realitivly low pressure drop numbers, have a wide range of cores available and in general are a great option.
Btw they are a high efficent pierce fine design on the inside and out. This results in awesome efficiency in the air charge department as well as low pressure drop.
PTE use a bar and plate style core. they are widely available, very economic, and when paired with good endtanks can flow very well. There core choices aren't as vast as spearco, but they do hold there own.
Those are a few of the companies I have done research into, google does wonders, so does being on ALOT of boards.
other companies worth mentioning:
ARE cooling- aluminum radiator and engineering. Australia based company. From what I have gathered, have awesome intercooling making functions but aren't the most economical choise. They can pretty much custom make any core you need, and are a good choice for the 'budgetless' project.

ARE cooling

The greddy cores are also widely used, and I"ll let others chime in on those, as I have very limited research into them as well as experience.
Also this information only applies to air/air applications, air/water is a completly different ball game where you can get over 100% efficiency if you do it right.
Hope it helps, otherwise enjoy the ramble.

Good day to all.

Originally Posted by dumb_ricer

First, you would not even come close to pinning the dyno, but nice try. Unless you are making over 1100 on you dyno, you won't be pinning MAP's.

And it would definitely be extremely stupid to compare numbers from your Dyno Dynamics AWD dyno, to a 2wd dynojet, trust me, I am in the real world, and I do understand driveline loss and that those dyno's read low compared to a dynojet.

So as of yet, as I suspected, you are all just saying that the expensive cores are better, with no proof except for heresay and "similar setups". I'm not trying to get into it with anyone, just trying to find real world info, and my info is correct as of yet, until proven otherwise.

Oh, and by the way, nice try, but don't try to lump me in with "you guys" at MAPerformance. I am not MAPerformance, I do not work there, I am simply friends with them.

Originally Posted by dumb_ricer

It pins at 1500whp, so I doubt it.:)

You do make a huge amount of power, but to damn near double it, I don't think so. And beyond that, I don't think your internals will handle that much. I would probably be questioning the block at that power level.:-p

Oh, and just because I do not post often doesn't mean I don't have the knowledge. Yes, I understand intercooling, yes I understand the advantages of certian ones, but at the end of the day, I don't think there is a significant difference between a core identical to an evotion for 170 dollars and a 600 dollar expensive spearco, pte, greddy, ect... core. I don't have it out for you, and I would never go all in on something I'm not 90 percent sure about. You don't go all in on a draw;) I'm sure you know that. I keep my mind open to new things.

Oh, and I am Nathan. The tall 220LBish kid with a HUGE nose:)

Originally Posted by ju-on

You said mine wasperforming well when we dynoed it. Mines an ebay core, bar and plate, with a shit ton of turbulators. Anywho, just get whatever you want to get. Make your own decision, decide what you want, and best of luck to ya!