Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Damn at least you got a 9sec pass!!!

J/K. Sorry to hear something broke hopefully its something easy.

I broke a axle on Friday at cfr shit sucks.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

9sec 1/8th time wot. Last year the car ran a 6.7@115 in the 1/8th. But yes its just the water pump gasket that pushed out from the bottom of the water pump. So back together and time for more street driving.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Yay thats awesome we should go to grove creek next Saturday?!@#$%&*?

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I just got home, and the car broke again, I have to take the tranny apart to confirm but I think it broke all the teeth off the center diff, or something with 3rd gear.

We lowered tire pressure to 22psi and I did a 1st gear burn out just like normal. Then lined up and slip launched from 6,000rpm. The track had plenty of bite, I slipped out the clutch and has soon as it set the rear end and started to make power I heard a loud snap/bang noise and the engine went straight to rev limiter. I think if the tranny did not break it would have run the 60' that I have been looking for. So far my best of a 1.735, but this lauch felt much faster. The car only made it 30' so no time slip was made.

So I stopped right away and tried 1st gear and nothing, so shut the car off and pushed it back to the pit.

We took the tranny out at the track and it seems to be the center diff gear is broken, so no power is going to the front diff or transfer case.

I will take the tranny apart tomorrow and come up with a parts list.

At least the car broke something it "should" have this time.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...hotos_0351.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_037.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...hotos_0381.jpg


So we did find a way to get a good launch out of the car, but as it came up on power there was no wheel spin, no hopping, I just heard a loud bang noise.

So that is a lot of damage in 30'. I need a new intermediate shaft, new Evo 3 3rd gear, and a center diff housing. Then a lot of clean up and put it back together. I have a center diff housing here, so I will order the other parts this week.

Now I will use this tranny until I can afford a Dog box, then use this one as a back up tranny. Or I might save my pennies and build another tranny as a back up, we will see.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Wow.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

TMP. I love it.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I have a couple 1g parts trannies if you need anything

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Excellent carnage!!

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I don't miss breaking transmissions.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I am picking up a few parts trannys tomorrow. And I am talking with Jacks trans and he has a few ideas to help make the tranny last a little longer, but in a nut shell he thinks I will always break a tranny, its just how often and having a back up to swap in.

He is not a fan of the dog box, and the $6000+ price tag at Magnus is a lot to take, I can build and fix a lot of trannys before I get close to that mark.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I would be curious to hear what Jack’s recommended?

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Would going auto work better for you?

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Have you looked into using a cooler I know that a lot of guys have been talking about it and I was looking into it before i sold mine.

Also I have that galant gsx trans if u could use it.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Have you thought about cryo treating the gears? You should talk to the guys at Frozen Rotors, they are local.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Yes jacks said to cryo treat the new gears, sense its a race car it does not see a lot of street miles to get a good number of heat cycles threw the gears.

Jack also said he was working on another gear set with stronger gears, and he has sent out a few sets to people breaking evo 3 stuff, and he told me I would break these new gears also.

Jacks does not like the dog box's on the market due to the straight cut gears. This puts all the stress into the shafts. He would like to see a helical cut dog box.

I think just about everything gear ratio wise is different in the galant GSX, I will look into a tranny cooler, but when it broke there was almost no heat in the tranny, it drove off the trailer, did a burn out and broke at the 30' mark.

I do not want to put an auto in the car, if I wanted to bracket race the car and have almost 0 fun driving it, then auto would be the way to go. But on the street this thing is a blast to drive.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

When I talked to Dogbox racing last year while transmission shopping they said they make a helical cut dog engagement trans. No idea on the price though.

How did those parts trannies look inside? Hopefully there were plenty of good parts.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Helical cut dogbox? I'm not a tranny expert, but I thought "dogbox" trannies meant straight cut dogs (like reverse), not helical...?

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Stolen from NASIOC:

What types of engagement are available? This is a common source of confusion when searching for information on transmissions. There are two types of engagement: Synchro and Dog.

Synchro engagement (also known as synchromesh) is what most passenger cars use.

Advantages:
a. Smooth operation on the road
b. No special driving style required

Disadvantages:
a. Synchros and shifting forks can break when abused and shifted aggressively
b. Slower to shift vs. dog engagement

Dog engagement is what most race prepared vehicles use.

Advantages:
a. Engage at any rpm
b. Allows for wider gear design
c. Will flat shift (Flat shifting is a practice where the clutch or gas do not need to be totally lifted in order to shift. Users will slightly lift one or the other to unload the dogs to allow a very fast shift)

Disadvantages:
a. Difficult to drive on the road
b. Recommended only for race use
c. Special care required under normal street use

What is a dog box? A dog box is the term for a transmission utilizing a dog engagement. A dog box can have either helical or spur gears or both.

What is a half dog box? A half dog box utilizes a combination of synchro and dog engagement. It depends on the manufacturer and customer preferences. Generally speaking, the first and second gears are dog engagement and the rest of the gears are synchro engagement. A half dog box can have either helical or spur gears or both.

What is synchronizer (synchro) engagement?
Synchros are synchronizers inside the transmission. These are the actual parts that move when you move your gear shift from side to side and back and forth. Their job is to connect the gears of the transmission to the shafts that they ride on and lock them together. This must be done at a gradual rate or the gears will grind. The synchronizer drives a cone shaped metal piece against the gear and starts the gear spinning. It accelerates it to the speed of the output shaft. When the gear reaches the speed of the output shaft, the synchro meshes completely with both of them and directs drive through its splines from the gear to the output shaft or vice versa.

What is dog engagement? Dogs are basically no more than cogs on a slider. The shifter pushes them into a receiver ring which engages the gear it is attached to. There is a separate dog and receiver for each gear in the transmission. On a racing transmission, there is a lot of "slop" (the gaps in the receiver are a lot larger than the teeth on the dog), which makes it easier to move into and out of the gears at higher RPMs without fully engaging the clutch.

Can a dog box be driven on the street? Though generally reserved for race applications, many users drive dog boxes on their daily driven vehicles. To do so, you need to learn proper shifting techniques and rev matching skills to decrease wear on the dog gears. The Shifting FAQ, this article, local personnel, or your transmission professional should be able to provide assistance with proper shifting techniques. This is one decision that should not be made lightly. If there is the slightest doubt in your mind as to your technique or attitude towards a daily driven dog box, you should opt for a synchro engagement transmission. Another thing to keep in mind is that a dog box is definitely not an option for a vehicle that sees occasional use by others such as your spouse, friends, visitors, valet, etc.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I think the Grinding gears does throw a few people off, the only gears that "move" inside the tranny on a dsm for shifting is reverse, and even then there is a synchro on reverse but it just stops the input shaft to select reverse.

As said above when you shift a synchro tranny the gears are always in mesh and spinning, but you are moving a hub that is on a slider that is attached to the main shaft. The hub applies force to the synchro ring to match the shaft speed to the gear speed to engage that gear. They use what is known as Dogs to apply the force from the hup to the synchro ring and match the speed. The synchros are also known as the breaks in a MT. So when you have a double or triple synchro you are making your "breaking" surface a lot bigger then a single synchro.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...w=1920&bih=975

So on the left they show the neutral position for that gear.

And the middle they show you selecting that gear, so you are moving the slider onto the gear, as you do this it applies force threw the dogs to push the synchro onto the gear and match there speeds.

Then in the last pic it shows the hub fully engaged onto the gear, so the hub is on the out side and the dog is in the middle of the last pick, in the dsm tranny there are 3 of these for each gear. And the dogs have spring clips on both sides to help hold them in place, but I suspect under rpm its centrifugal force that pushes the dogs into the hub, and as you move the hub up or down to select a gear it pushes the dogs in to "grab" and push the synchro into the gear you are selecting.

Goodhart is talking about "Pro shifting" a tranny, that does not solve my problem. My tranny shifts great at 10,000rpm, but the gears are not strong enough to handle the crazy hp my car makes.

Doing a pro shift makes a synchro tranny shift like a dog box, or a motor cycle but the gears are not stronger because they are stock gears cut up in a mill.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...w=1920&bih=975

Here they show a pro shifted tranny, its stock gears with dog engagement.

http://www.sheptrans.com/dogbox/dsm_awd.htm

This is a true dog box, with dog engagement and straight cut gears.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Yup. That's what I picture when someone talks about a "dogbox" tranny. Strong straight cut dogs, not helical cut which puts some side loading on the gears.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

What you see there is straight cut gears, which puts all the force threw the shafts, which if they are designed to handle it is fine. But the dsm dog box still breaks, it is not the end all for the MT dsm.

And the Helical cut gears puts some power to the shafts and some power to the bearings, its more of an even trade.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

PPG FTMFW!! Damn spendy gear set though!! Good luck on this John!! Hope to see it going again soon!!

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Make less torque! Thats how the honda camp keep their trannies together

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I only have 473 torques for 720 awhp. And we made the car as light as possible, I guess I need to get carbon fiber panels, and start making suspension and sub frames from aluminum.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

How did Shep keep his trannies together running 7's?

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

+1

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Has anyone looked into running Evo X gears? I have to assume they are very similar. From everything I have read they are simply beefier than previous generations. So far no one on X's has really ran into problems, even the 800whp+ guys.

I doubt it will work but figured I would ask.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

http://www.sheptrans.com/dogbox/dsm_awd.htm

I am sure he had to go threw it every now and then to fix/replace stuff, but right now that is not in my budget.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

There are lots of guys making a lot more TQ keeping their stuff together, you should give them a shout a lot of them seem pretty helpful.

a car setup for mile runs makes 1098/698 and he just made some passes last week with no issues.

I hope you get this figured out soon, keep up the hard work.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

New parts are on the way, then they will be dropped off for cryo treating.

The part that broke was used, I am going to say it was a bad part from the word go and hope for the best.

I should only need it to handle about 2-4 more launches then we will see how long it lasts on the street.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

John, do you preload on the line at all? If not, could help.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Not yet, I am not launching on a 2 step and I slip the clutch a lot so I do not think its shock loading that caused it to break.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

That really sucks about the tranny issues! Hopefully it was just that used part like you said and you don't have any more bad luck. Crazy how positive you're staying and just keep on trucking! Keep up the amazing work!

I'd wonder if warming up the tranny fluid before making a pass might help, like drive around the pit roads a bit. I always hated making pulls on a cold tranny fluid

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiZggin4QBY&hd=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_-FrJkTxa8&hd=1

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

What gear were you in during the dyno pulls?

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Comes at a cost. Warmer gears are weaker gears. I wish Jack didn't erase all his posts on Link forums or I'd have a source of reference.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

On a Dyno Dynamics you can not go over 150mph, so a dsm you run the car in 3rd gear, and that still gets to 110mph.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

http://www.maktrak.com/

Only $16,000

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

And they're only rated to 500 ft/lbs!!!!:lol: