Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

I appreciate the kind words sir, I think we've got the best of both worlds here :)

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

^Sounds good Chris, thanks for the response. Any chance on you guys wanting to do a 2.2L overbore motor to compete with AMS's...;)

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

We can do anything you desire sir ;)

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

I think a trip over there to talk with you is inline. I will wait for your email response and go from there.

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

Initial Build Plans, rough idea:

shortblock machine work (bore / hone / resurface), shortblock assembly from bare block, cylinder head tear down / valve job / resurface / re-assembly, longblock assembly from complete shortblock, engine removal and re-installation)

Manley I Beam Rods, Wiseco Pistons (possibly wosner ones), Cosworth Bearings, OEM Head Gasket, ARP Head Studs, OEM Oil Pump, Cosworth Dual Valve Springs / Retainers, Supertech 1mm+ Valves)


Then of course we need to source a block from somewhere...and I am praying my head is ok.

The cosworth cams will be for sale too most likely...swapping them for something a bit more aggressive, probably GSC2's.

Scheides, im looking at you, want some cams ;)

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

Nooooo! Stock cams ftw! I gotta show you guys how to make power on a simple setup ;)

Might be interested though, lmk what you want for them ;)

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

Honestly I haven't seen much that proves aftermarket cams helps a ton on the X's. Maybe on pump gas, but on e85 it seems that you can already max the setup out. So if you plan to stick with pump, then i would think the cosworths would help for sure. On Buschurs dom2 setup on pump they picked up 40whp/40wtq on their dyno, which is what convinced me to buy them.

I will let you know if i sell them:)

Edit: honestly, i thought my setup was pretty damn simple...especially my stock turbo setup, i only upgraded what was needed, aside from cams which i was a test bunny for everyone to see if it helped the stock turbo at all, which it didn't.

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

People made the same claims about Cosworth and other cams for the 9's when cams for them first cam out. But, if you took an actually decent running already tuned 9 though and put in some of the aftermarket 9 cams, it was hard to tell if they even did anything at all, even after trying a lot of different MIVEC settings. It seems like often for newer platforms Cosworth is the first to the party, there are some big claims made, other people can't replicate it and a year later nobody is using the Cosworth stuff at all.

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

Yeah, please school Shane so he can get it right. :banhim:

It's true that they don't seem to do much on E85. I've seen some fairly dramatic pump tune differences, especially the lousy Cali 91.

I bought mine as a musical instrument. :D

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

LOL, that's not what I meant. :) Plan for my car is to rock most of what I got, throw on a little bigger snail, stick with pump and stock cams, see what it does. Just about time for my own project thread I think.

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

Go dom2! I have always wanted to see a local dom2 setup sincei i don't trust internet numbers. The dom2 has always seemed to own on pump. The bbx seems nice too, but i think the dom2 is very solid:)

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

He was already talking BBX and it is putting down some nice pump numbers.

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

Yes it is pretty solid, but like we have both said, until we see it on Shane's dyno I am not convinced. I still don't like that GST squeezed more out of a dom2 on e85 than the bbx.

There is also the newer bbx that is smaller that only spools like 250rpm's later than the stocker.

I look forward anxiously to your results!

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

^careful not to base all opinions of a turbo, cams, or any other part on one particular data set. Everything needs to be taken with perspective. No dom2 for me, chad is already chomping at the bit to build a bbx (full) for me, that's what I want. Enough about me though, this is dave's thread!

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

It's all good talk though, X turbo stuff:)

I don't know if it is my mood today or what...but if I can find the right buyer for my car, buying a used 9 is looking tempting.

It would be cheaper and I wouldn't have downtime. Plus I could get away with no second car for now.

So much crap is running through my brain it's unreal...i haven't been able to focus at work all week. Just keep thinking about what the hell I want to do.

I would love to buy Kracka's car honestly...very very very tempting.

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

ftw!

There's only been one E85 car that I know of and he said right in the post that it was a weak X based on the previous tune. I won't be pushing my car as hard as you do so I'm not sure if my results will impress anybody.

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

lmao, its on the internet its so true!!

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

Lomker, I think your car will make good power..i would expect 430+ for sure, especially with your head work and intake mani etc etc.

I wouldn't be surprised to see it crack 450 either.

But it is for sure unknown in my mind where it will land..shanes dyno is a tough one to crack.

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

The more I think about my situation...the more I change my mind.

I am pretty set on my decision as of now...but here is what I am thinking. I have two options, well three if you count build the motor, which still might happen (probably 35% chance).

I think it is hard to justify a damn near $60k evo. I would love one, but frankly, i don't want to invest that much, at least not all at once. Maybe on a car i have owned for 4 years, but not all at once.

So I am thinking of trying to sell it as is to a mechanically inclined person to drop in a shortblock/longblock.

Or buy a ralliart long block, take off all the parts that I can and convert it back to stock. Then when it is stock, sell the bastard, I am sure I could get a good price for it running, in stock form.

I know for sure I don't want a stock evo X...they are too porky to be fun at in stock form. So once I sell it, an evo 9 will be found.

The 9 is lighter and has a bigger stock turbo. So I honestly think an evo 9 on e85 would be able to satisfy me. And if not...i would build the motor first, then upgrade it, but that wouldn't be for a while. I would still have mivec too which would be nice.

So we will see what happens.

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

If a nice IX weren't selling for $2k less than a X then I'd see the logic.

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

Even the X when i had it running perfect, still felt heavy.

I love the car, but i don't want to push another stock motor on it and i don't want to have a stock motor setup on one.

So i am faced with...sell the car and go something else or build the motor to handle the power i want out of it.

I just think that a nice 9 on e85 stock motor/turbo would be the perfect setup of fast and it would probably be able to get that for a wash of everything I have right now with selling parts etc.

I am still not set on anything, but this is what I am leaning towards. If I get a buyer for the X at a price I feel comfortable with, it will be gone.

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

I'm definitely not in the market, but what's a range you'd be comfortable with?

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I agree with both these statements.

Sadly I just got my car aligned by jeff last friday before my motor blew, it felt great at the time:(

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Just think, you'll be able to enjoy this alignment once you get your motor back together :)

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I am leaning towards letting someone else enjoy it:)

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

FWIW, far more 4G63's have broken than 4b11's, so I hope you're not planning on gaining a bunch of reliability by going that route ;) Just get a longblock from mitsu, have shane put some drop-ins in it(like our man mike here), your cams, and some valvesprings, and get back on the road!

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

We should take this discussion to my thread;)

Not as far as pushing the limits...but i plan to be satisfied with a 9 stock turbo e85 setup.

And if I did want more, before i went to a bigger turbo i would build the damn thing. No more pushing limits for me. Longer safer route from now on.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Excuse me while I laugh. I've never seen you satisfied before.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Done :)

I put 20k miles on my evo8 @420whp on the stock bottom end, and I'm planning on doing the same with my X. Still, there is a line that gets crossed, and its not obvious until you've seen the wrong side of it.

I still think there is something to blame other than the tune/power/torque man. A bad injector, a line or two coming loose (did you check the FPR line yet?), a loose coupler, etc.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

GOOD GOD...AM I THAT TIRED FROM IRON MAN 2 Last night?

Scheides did you move stuff from Lomker's thread to mine or am i going crazy? I am really tired btw.


I know, because the X just never impressed me damn it. That is why i had 180 dyno runs on it. It was getting close with my last setup but I still wanted more. Very close.

But honestly, since Scheides had a 432whp lighter 8 with the 4g63 and drove mine at it's peak.

Do you really feel that my car felt as fast Scheides? I personally feel the extra weight is very noticeable.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

LOL, mike remember dave doesn't swing like that ;)

But yea, its true. Stock turbo is a lot of fun, but you'll always be looking ahead for more more more.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Yup, I checked all the lines, they looked good...weew, thank god. Glad you moved it, i thought i was going crazy.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I never rode in scheides' car. As mentioned in the 'fast car' thread, yours is the fastest car I've ever been in. Maybe one of these days one of the guys with a DSM beast will take me for a spin.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

True, but talking to Ron made me realize I am not crazy. He agreed that a 380whp (that is what his X was making before he put it back to stock) X was just not nearly as fast as a 380whp 8/9.

He said they felt completely different and thought i would be happier in the 9 with my power hungry attitude.

I am still not saying I am going with anything yet, in fact just last night i convinced myself to build the X, or so i thought. Now when i woke up 180 degree switch. It is a very big decision for me, not going to happen just yet.

That is why I figured I would ask you scheides to see what you think.

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

I thought your car felt just as fast as my car with the BBK on alky, just not quite as torquey and I could tell the BCS was slowing the spool (after a shift) a bit, but that's the ecu-geek in me over-analyzing. X also needs NLTS asap. My X honestly does not feel any more heavy than my SSL Evo8, and feels just as (if not more) nimble through the corners, even on snow tires. Once I get a few more power mods done on mine, we'll do some testing & comparing sessions with a few other cars and see what's what in the real world.

There is definitely a certain rawness that the X lacks that my 8 had, but I keep thinking about all the little stuff I did to the 8 to make it what it was: rear diff bushings, properllershaft bushings, short shifter and associated bushings, front motor mount, etc etc etc. When I get all of this kind of stuff on my new car I'm praying hughes still owns his IX (we had sooo many of the same mods, such good combos) so I can fly down, take it for a spin, and re-ponder this.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Perhaps we should do a poll.

1) Fix the X.
2) Buy a IX.
3) STFU with all the waffling.

:rollinglaugh:

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

You guys are getting messed up by trying to be quick as someone else. Build your car slowly and enjoy it, once you get used to it, you will want more its natural.

Obviously you know you want it to be decently quick but take your time and enjoy it.

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

#3 :)

Re: Dave's Evo X Build
 

#3, I love waffles!

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Honestly that day my X wasn't doing the in between shift lag nearly as bad as it normally was but maybe i should just go with a MBC until NLTS comes.

It has been so long since I had my 8 that I can't remember, but from what I do remember, the 8 felt quicker, probably the torque, but it just had a different feel to it. I agree the X feels way better turning, but if you look at the power band of say Jim's FPred car vs. mine, my car spools sooner by quite a bit, so low end is better, but his midrange somehow passes mine up and then the x repasses at the top. So this is probably why the 8/9's feel faster, because on the street that latter spool is actually what you see on the street since most people downshift so it's more in the powerband.

Ron's opinion and observations still are weighing heavily on me right now. I know I will always want more, its the nature of the game, but I am so nervous that I will build the motor and then that will blow and then I am totally fucked. I mean 9 grand to build a motor, plus i need to buy a beater for the time being...it is so much damn money on cars it's crazy.

Obviously I could put a stock motor back in for quite a bit cheaper. But then the natural course of wanting more would set in and I would end up paying for labor twice, and that is a lot of labor. So i don't think it makes sense to not build the motor to keep the X.

The thing that appeals to me the most about going to the 9 is the plethora of options, the already very well documented abilities and what each mod does and obviously the lighter chassis, since if anything the drag strip is more my style. Not to mention after all is said and done, if I picked up a 9 with decent mods on it for 23-25k, and I parted the X out or got what i wanted out of it with all the mods included. I would actually not really have a car payment.

Hopefully it makes sense why I would want a 9.

Added..minus the third...well I am going to try:)