Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I got to DB this afternoon and they showed me some carnage. http://www.evomn.net/forums/images/smiles/icon_sad.gif

One of the covers that goes over the top of the cams (holds the bearing in place) snapped when they turned the car over. Mitsu also doesn't sell that part separately--you have to buy a whole head.

Now we need to look into buying a salvaged head and machining it or finding a new one through Mitsu at a reasonable price (not likely).

I'll be calling my Credit Union to see if I can do a cash-out refinance since I put a fair bit down on the car when I bought it. A built head is in the ballpark of $5k. The plus side is more power and I could get as crazy with the rpms as I dared...

The engine bay looks fucking amazing! I'll post some pics when I get home from work.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Ouch. I've never heard of that happening before. Take any carnage pics?

Time for a Cosworth head?
http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...&idproduct=570

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

That's on the short-list of possibilities since they don't require a core.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I know MAP can get them and I bet DB can too.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

The Cossie head includes their $800 high-end valve springs and titanium retainers as well. I wasn't happy with my original choice of the single springs, anyway. That head should be good for 9k rpm.

Just got off the phone with my credit union and refinanced my car. I had $6k in equity so let the games begin...

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I bet you could get good $$ for your used head somewhere down the road so even if you got the head for $4k you'd still be in good shape. Props for making stuff happen quickly, I am seriously impressed. Most other cars would sit in the shop collecting dust while decisions were being made.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

If nothing else I'm sure some shop would be willing to purchase the head to use as a porting template.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Well, that head is the property of DB. If they can find a way to fix it up and/or make a few bucks on it somehow then that'd be awesome. I just wouldn't care to have a patched-up head in my car...and Shane didn't want to put it back into my car, either.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Cam cap has a boo-boo:

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._4093627_n.jpg

I like how the engine bay is going to look.

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._8013447_n.jpg

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5552164_n.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._8087661_n.jpg

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

It looks cool at least:)

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Wow, I've never heard of a cam cap breaking like that. Any idea why it happened?

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

That's pretty gay about the cam cap peice.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

That's seriously fucked up. I don't follow EvoX news, but has anyone anywhere reported a problem like this, even a dealer doing something on the head and having this happen?

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

fucked up, good thing you are balla' though. lol

sorry to hear but glad you are making some good out of a sticky situation.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I'm so not a mechanic but the guys at DB said they immediately searched the Internet and found 2 or 3 similar instances. My bit of research suggests that the cam caps are custom machined for each head. It is to compensate for machining tolerances in the head itself. If the cap is torqued down even the slightest bit out of alignment then the cam will bind and break the cap.

I posted a thread on EvoXforums and I've gotten some feedback already. The immediate comment was that you have to use dowels to hold the cap in place while torquing it down and that the specs on those bolts are in in/lbs and you have to use a very good torque wrench. I obviously wasn't there when Shane did that work so I'm not going to speculate.

It's an "upgrade opportunity" as far as I'm concerned. There are a number of people on the EvoX forum that want to buy the head from DB and have a machine shop fix it. They seem to think that'll be fine. The tolerances sound rather tight to me. I dunno.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I'm not sure that maxing out my car loan is balla'. I guess I'm just willing to spend what I don't have at this point.

It's become a 'moral imperative' to see this project completed. lol.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I suppose the cap could be welded back together then machined to fit again, but I'd be a little hesitant to use a cam cap like that.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

That's nuts, crazy it broke. The engine bay looks way better with all those covers off.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

That is the first head I've seen having a cap that goes over both cams. Other Mitsubishi heads (4G63) have separate caps for each cam.

http://www.carplanetracing.com/image...thevohead3.jpg

I can see where if the cap isn't seated correctly before tightening, or if the cam puts pressure upward on the cap when it gets tightened, that the cap could break like that. Though how it would break when the engine is turned over doesn't make sense.

Best of luck, we'll be looking forward to seeing what you end up doing.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Totally. This is new with the 4B11T.

I got a bit of good news tonight. A guy that does R&D work for Cosworth saw my post and offered me a head for $3800. I seriously doubt that I could beat that--it looks like $4200 is the going price.

It may very well have broke while he was torquing it down. I am smart enough to not ask a lot of questions after someone offers to fix an expensive problem. I could tell he was kicking himself enough already.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

It happened while taking off/putting on that double cam cap, while working on setting up his valve clearances. The Evo X doesn't have hydraulic lifters, it uses non-adjustable valve tappets that need to checked/measured/bought/etc that go between the cam and valve. I had 3 that weren't within the specs with his new cams in there.

There is a bearing on the cam cap where it broke. Only 1 cam journal in the head uses a bearing and it was the one that broke. I am sure not if a dowel wasn't seated correctly or the bearing was a little out of alignment/high/rotated and it caught an edge. It took very little force for it to break. I didn't realize it was such a potential risk for breakage until after I did it and found other people on EvoM who had done it also and heard from Brookdale Mitsu that they have had other customers in town do it also. Since there is a bearing in the one that did break, I have a solution for fixing it, that I would do if it was my car, but it's a customer car and I didn't want to do that on his head or fix in that without telling him. The look of the casting and thickness of cap in that area doesn't scream strong, it looks like something you could tap on the ground and expect it to snap off.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Well I guess more research for when you pull my head;)

You didn't have to deal with this when doing my cams did you? I am guessing because you didn't have to pull my head...i am no mechanic.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Toyota uses this type of design on some of those heads too, but they are more robust and better designed then these are.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I had that piece off your head to do the cams, but I didn't have to mess around with yours as much taking things on and off, because all of your valve clearances seemed to be within spec. All of his clearances that were out of spec were on the exhaust cam, 2 were barely out of spec and 1 was a bit farther out. You won't have any rockers popping off or lifters collapsing with these heads, but dealing with shim buckets is sometimes a pain and can get expensive. I have done Subaru and Supra heads with BC cams that required every shim bucket to either be moved from another valve or replacement ones bought. Buying the cheaper cams ends up costing more than just buying some HKS cams that are ground right in the first place, but a lot of guys will also just drop whatever in without ever measuring anything.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I HATE doing the shims on those buckets!! Luckily the dealerships paid us a few hours book time to do them!

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Regardless, your car is in good hands. This is why DB rocks and Shane is the man.

Thanks for the info, Shane.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

One of the best decisions I've made but I'm afraid that Shane might up scheide's fees for sending him expensive customers. :wedgie:

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Just pick up Taco Bell for Shane, order everything with extra no meat, and he'll be happy.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I don't mind paying extra when I'm at DB. It's one of those places that I want to know is going to be there for years and years to come, and didn't close down because I skimped and begged to save a few bucks just to see them close their doors after a few years.

That's freaking crazy that there's a bearing on one of the cam caps...what on earth is the reason for this one random bearing? What a PITA. That thing does look thin as hell too, no wonder it broke. :(

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Bingo!!!!!!

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Kracka, you are good:)

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

twss

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Nice!!

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I have a PM in to AMS on this. Shane says he has a good machinist in town.

The question now is how many weeks will it take AMS to make a batch. We waited quite a few weeks just for CBRD's wheels to be anodized in blue, so I'm not holding my breath.

Looks like I'll be doing auto-x novice school in a `94 plymouth acclaim. hell yeah!

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

There are some instructors who say you'll learn more as a driver in a shitty car on bad tires so that may not actually be a bad thing. Although I personally like practicing/learning in my actual car.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Want to drive a 2003 Evo 8?

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

I did some research today. Fixing the head doesn't look like such a great idea to me.

1) AMS says "2 to 3 weeks" to get a $225 cam cap. I've seen that turn into 4-6 weeks too many times. Then machining time...then shop time. I probably wouldn't see the car until June. Not sure what machining costs but I'm assuming hundreds. That's a lot to sink into a $1k head not to mention the time.

2) Stock head. About a $1k and comes totally bare. I'm guessing these are readily available but I haven't checked. They come bare so I'm not sure how many little parts or labor is required to move the valves, springs, seals, etc over to the new one.
http://tinyurl.com/yckyjt9

3) Cosworth built head. Found a guy who can get it for under $4k and doesn't require a core. Supposedly good to 10.5k rpms (not that I'd even think about it). These are on the shelf and ready to ship. They come fully assembled so it doesn't look like there'd be any extra labor other than installing the cams.

I'm obviously going to need new gaskets for everything and need to ask Shane about re-using the head studs. I'm trying to get some details from the guy that offered me those great prices so we'll see how that goes.

Hope to make a decision and get something ordered this week.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Who has one of those? :hide:

I might be better off driving a POS. That way I can pretend it's the car that sucks. haha.

Re: Evo X upgrades
 

Go big or go home. I'm ordering the Cosworth head tomorrow.