Advanced Lower Engine - Decisions, decisions...

[DSMINMN]

Advanced Lower Engines is one of my classes for this semester here at Northwest Technical in Bemidji [where it's always nice & sunny, HA]. For said class we meet certain times a month to discuss things. One of the projects we are to start working on is making up a build sheet for our "Advanced Engine" project. It is a combination of Advanced Upper and Lower engine(s) class. Said build sheet is due by the second of October.

Like the indecisive f*ck I am however, I am having the worst time trying to decide on whether to build a six bolt or a 7. Then it is a decision between a 2.0L or a 2.3L. Well...really it is pretty simply; either build a 2.0L 6 bolt because of the availability of a G4CS crank (not much of one if any), or a 2.3L 7 bolt because I have many 7 bolt blocks & a 4g64 crank readily available.

Another idea is to consider what car I would like to put this into....because let's face it, I am after-all building an engine to put into a vehicle. I have three main vehicles in mind; '92 TSi AWD manual, '95 Mirage AWD auto. or my '95 TSi AWD auto. One can always decide later I suppose. However transmissions become an issue one should figure into the over-all "build". Being Mitsubishi manual transmissions seem to be made of glass it makes one learn towards an automatic. Then you think of converter stall(s) and the like.

[DSMINMN]

Having a converter re-stalled is much cheaper than building a really nice flywheel, clutch and transmission build package. That is at least how I look at it. Plus with my now "advanced experience" with automatics I think I can handle the whole automatic rebuilding and such.

After some of these decisions are made I can get into specifics. Such as which pistons to go with; Wossner, Arias or Mahle for pistons. Manley, GRP, Crower or possibly Carrillo for the rods. I'm pretty set on OEM Mitsu. cranks for how many people swear by them and cost over a new Eagle piece. About the only different route I would consider would be FFWD Connection's 'Vader "X" Rotating Assembly' which includes their "Butchered" knife edged Eagle crankshaft, "Vader" aluminum rods and Ross pistons. Plus their included SST coated bearings.

[DSMINMN]

For the head I am undecided on a little more advanced, ported & polished 7 bolt like I did for Wildman38 AKA Jeremy:

http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr38/imports4life/imports4life016/10455695_10205044068528466_6149095610319511927_n_z ps5f75dcef.jpg


http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr38/imports4life/imports4life016/10623337_10205044069608493_6054668334082606194_o_z ps94bf214e.jpg


http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr38/imports4life/imports4life016/10672323_10205044070808523_1092064719921370852_n_z ps1319ec7b.jpg


http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr38/imports4life/imports4life016/10626165_10205044080128756_3139593442043598390_o_z ps2666774f.jpg


http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr38/imports4life/imports4life016/10575426_10205044071008528_2343019110825516880_o_z ps8ba33bde.jpg

...or just stick to a 6 bolt for the large, high flow ports. Then do a little cleaning up, knife edging, polishing and the like. Of course if I decide on a 7 bolt block and a 6 bolt head I'll have to jump for the 1/2" or 12mm head studs and make them fit the block as well. These are simple issues though.

I can say I am 100% decided on stainless steel valves, bronze guides and 3mm HLA's as I already have said parts waiting to be used. The valves are sold on eBay by a seller that get's them from the same place Ferrea or Supertech has there's made. They're just not branded, marked or packaged with a brand name. They're the same thing however. This goes from the HLA's and guides.


http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr38/imports4life/derp2_zpsefa29469.jpg


As far as valve springs go I am looking at Kiggly's High Pressure Beehives. Many people recommend them and like the product. I have yet to hear a complaint about them. Cams are a draw between Kelford and GSC. Size will depend but 272's seem to be a pretty safe number.

[DSMINMN]

I plan on having a top mount T4 exhaust manifold made. The turbo selection is still foggy as I do not know the engine size quite yet. Borg Warner has very decent prices for some great products. I was looking at possibly a S300/400. I'd like to stick to T4 divided for the nice spool characteristics it seems to give over an open T3 or something of the like.

I have an intake manifold that was made in the early 2000's by a guy that I believe passed away shortly after making a bunch of them? He was flow testing them and the like but information is hard to find though. I cannot even remember his name either so that's no help. If I can fit a newer version from someone else into my overall budget I may decide to go that route. I'm not quite there yet though so it'll remain in the air until said time.

[DSMINMN]

So...to the ultimate reason for this thread.

Can I get some insight on what may or may not be a good combination? Maybe some personal pro's and con's of each of my ideas. I know a bit about each but it's always nice hearing other people's opinions on engine sizes, different products and even ideas/suggestions on other things to consider.

As far as a budget goes I am putting a cap on it at $10,000. This includes everything that will touch the engine: complete top end, complete bottom end, turbo, o2 housing, exhaust & intake manifold, injectors, sensors, timing components...you get the idea.

Thanks for reading my book and I look forward to discussing.

[goodhart]

10k should give you enough for a monster build! If you're leaning towards an auto I'd go with a 2.3 or 2.4, better powerband and You should be able to get up on the stall a little easier vs a 2.0. Now days it seems if you build them right it doesn't really matter too much whether you build a 6 or 7 bolt. I would think It'd be easier to find 4g64 stuff vs g4cs? Everyone seems to go with Manley rods in their builds, they must work well enough, but Eagles have been holding 700HP for decades and the price is right. Just food for thought. For pistons, lots of Evo guys seem to run Manley's as well, I know Leasure runs the Wiseco HD's and they seem to hold up to the gobs of power he makes.


For the head I would use a 2g. From researching my build I found that port velocity is much more important than mass flow which is why I went with a 2g head. It's not like you're going to get choked out by running a 2g head (Kiggly runs one), they have a better runner path, and it is similar to an Evo 8/9 head in terms of runner size. There is a reason Mitsu chose to stick with the smaller runners. X's have even smaller runners IIRC. Seems like you have the other head stuff sorted out pretty well. When choosing springs, I would get your cams first so you know what kind of lift/etc you'll need to support.

[DSMINMN]

The torque from the extra displacement would definitely help. The only thing with Eagles are...well I've seen a lot of them fail from a few shops I follow via Facebook. Enough so said shops do not sell or advise them. Plus the whole "you get what you pay for" side of it would somehow bite me in the ass I'm sure.

Wiseco HDs could be a player in the game too. The whole ring land failure in the standard pistons specifically with the 4g63 sort of scare a person though... Well at least me. I'm probably overreacting though. Maybe I will be do a straight Manley/Manley combo. Depending upon availability and price of course. Arias and Wossner aren't quite out yet though.

I'll have to do some looking at what cams call for what. Do some comparison and such.

It's going to be an interesting build in hoping.

[goodhart]

Yea I have no idea what the good cams are anymore. Last I knew the HKS 272 was still the top dog. Its been a while.

I guess I've never heard of 4g63's having ringland issues?

[DSMINMN]

Yea I have no idea what the good cams are anymore. Last I knew the HKS 272 was still the top dog. Its been a while.

I guess I've never heard of 4g63's having ringland issues?

Kelford 272s are supposed to nearly resemble other lower companies' 280's and such. Now we have GSC too making really good products as well.

Wiseco had issues in their standard pistons cracking on certain ring lands. The HDs are supposed to not have said issue. I want to say I've seen people deal with the issue in the HDs though too. I don't recall where I read such information so it's clearly just speculation.

[DSMINMN]

Herpa-derp. This really made it far.

Thank you to Mike.