Setup Suggestions, input greatly appreciated!

[Constant_Project21]

I'm in the process of planning out my new setup for my 1g. I've decieded to go a little more built than first expected, and would greatly appreciate input. I've talked this over with Bob at work (MAP porting guru) but never hurts to ask for more opinions. Here's what I have planned, for the new setup, but also have some unknowns that still need to filled in- (btw, my goal will ultimately be a pretty reliable 400hp car on e85 eventually, maybe not until I upgrade the snail)

Basic engine:
MAP stage 1 shortblock, with the BSE kit, stock crank, just their basic build, with a few exceptions.

RODS-eagle, the ones that come with all stage one builds. I've been told they should have no problem handling 600hp

PISTONS-wiesco, and this is one spot I would like input on. The stage one build comes with the option of an 8.3:1 Manley, or a 8.5:1 wiesco. After chatting with Bob, he had suggested going with a higher compression ratio, something like a 8.8:1, 9:1, or even a 9.5:1, due to my 16g/e85 combo. He said, that I would benifit from the extra compression on the smaller turbo and on corn juice. (the planned successor to the 16g, would be a fp3052 or something similar, keep that in mind) What are your thoughts, and what compression ratio would you recommend going with?

HEAD(1g): There will be some mild port/polish work done, as well as a valve job and some cleaning of the bowls. I discussed a possible 1mm oversized
valves, but overall don't think I would benifit too much from it, so believe I will be sticking with stock valves (chime in if you have suggestions relating to valves). Springs/retainers, may see an upgrade, but then again, a 16g doesn't have the craziest top end, and won't be revving to the moon.

CAMS: The car used to have hks264's, which have been sold. I don't want to throw a ton of money at cams, so those of you using a cheaper yet effective cam, please share some insight on some possible suggestions.

TURBO: A ported, externally gated 16g (for now). I have one, which is why I'm going that route, and as mentioned before, plan to go bigger down the road.

FUEL SYSTEM: This is the biggest unknown for me. I currently have a walbro 255hp, on a stock fpr. I recently aquired FIC (Bosch) 1600cc injectors (overkill, but no need to upgrade), so those will be my injectors. My question is, is there any reason to use anything more than the one 255? I've been told in the past I may need a second pump, but recently have been told otherwise. I'll be putting a AFPR on as well.

EXHAUST: Have a full 3" N1 already, and will be using a MAP recirc o2 housing, paired with a tial mvs wastegate. Plan to pick up an Fp race manifold as well.

TUNING: DSMlink

Any input will be helpful. May have left a few things out, typing this on my iPhone, because my computer is being dumb, and couldve left some things out.

Thanks in advance!!
Dan.

[Halon]

I'm in the process of planning out my new setup for my 1g. I've decieded to go a little more built than first expected, and would greatly appreciate input. I've talked this over with Bob at work (MAP porting guru) but never hurts to ask for more opinions. Here's what I have planned, for the new setup, but also have some unknowns that still need to filled in- (btw, my goal will ultimately be a pretty reliable 400hp car on e85 eventually, maybe not until I upgrade the snail)

Basic engine:
MAP stage 1 shortblock, with the BSE kit, stock crank, just their basic build, with a few exceptions.

RODS-eagle, the ones that come with all stage one builds. I've been told they should have no problem handling 600hp

Perfect I agree


PISTONS-wiesco, and this is one spot I would like input on. The stage one build comes with the option of an 8.3:1 Manley, or a 8.5:1 wiesco. After chatting with Bob, he had suggested going with a higher compression ratio, something like a 8.8:1, 9:1, or even a 9.5:1, due to my 16g/e85 combo. He said, that I would benifit from the extra compression on the smaller turbo and on corn juice. (the planned successor to the 16g, would be a fp3052 or something similar, keep that in mind) What are your thoughts, and what compression ratio would you recommend going with?

I like the 8.5 Wiseco's. But if you plan to make big power, I worry about standard Wiseco's as I've seen lots of cracking take place in the wrist pin area.

But really at 16g power levels, a stock build is more than capable!

HEAD(1g): There will be some mild port/polish work done, as well as a valve job and some cleaning of the bowls. I discussed a possible 1mm oversized
valves, but overall don't think I would benifit too much from it, so believe I will be sticking with stock valves (chime in if you have suggestions relating to valves). Springs/retainers, may see an upgrade, but then again, a 16g doesn't have the craziest top end, and won't be revving to the moon.

I would recommend a stock 2g head, done. In my opinion, they are a superior design than the 1G design.


CAMS: The car used to have hks264's, which have been sold. I don't want to throw a ton of money at cams, so those of you using a cheaper yet effective cam, please share some insight on some possible suggestions.

I'd say find a set of used HKS 272's. They should be affordable, and you're set for quite awhile.


TURBO: A ported, externally gated 16g (for now). I have one, which is why I'm going that route, and as mentioned before, plan to go bigger down the road.

FUEL SYSTEM: This is the biggest unknown for me. I currently have a walbro 255hp, on a stock fpr. I recently aquired FIC (Bosch) 1600cc injectors (overkill, but no need to upgrade), so those will be my injectors. My question is, is there any reason to use anything more than the one 255? I've been told in the past I may need a second pump, but recently have been told otherwise. I'll be putting a AFPR on as well.

one 255 should be all you need with a 16g, even with e85. stock FPR is fine, only thing that might be affected is idle situations.


EXHAUST: Have a full 3" N1 already, and will be using a MAP recirc o2 housing, paired with a tial mvs wastegate. Plan to pick up an Fp race manifold as well.

good


TUNING: DSMlink

Perfect

[goodhart]

Single walbro should be enough for anything you want to throw at a 16g.

I would do a 2g head, the ports are smaller, but flow better from everyone I have talked to about heads. Shane and I had a talk about heads last summer when I brought a friend's car to get tuned. He had a stock 7 bolt longblock with an E316G, made 360HP and 320 torque I wanna say? He switched to a 2.3 stroker and a 1g head with a SMIM and lost power (made 347/361) on the same dyno with only those things changed. I asked Shane why he lost power with the bigger motor and SMIM, and he said it was most likely the head flow. PM Shane if you want more info I would say.

Other than that, the whole setup sounds like a good plan!!

Although, you might wanna pay Randyy before you dump to much money into this thing. :D

[Constant_Project21]

Thanks for the input so far guys!
Brandon, if I were to go the route of going 9:1 or something of the sort, I'd have to have them custom made according to Bob (not too much more expensive funny enough). I'd only want use HD's, as I as well have been hearing a bunch about the regular wiesco's having issues.

About the 2g head, I myself have read up on it, and have been debating on going that route. But I've also read, that a ported 1g head is just as good, if not better than a 2g head, even when ported. People always seem to be on the fence with this one.

Mike, I'll get randyy his whopping $50.

[awd-drifter]

I was thinking about getting 1g cams and bringing them to get regrinded to 272s for, i think, $200 total. You could say that is a 'less expensive' cam upgrade if you install the cams yourself. as for turbo...I've always had my eye on FP's 18g-sl2, or something like that

[niterydr]

I'm in the process of planning out my new setup for my 1g. I've decieded to go a little more built than first expected, and would greatly appreciate input. I've talked this over with Bob at work (MAP porting guru) but never hurts to ask for more opinions. Here's what I have planned, for the new setup, but also have some unknowns that still need to filled in- (btw, my goal will ultimately be a pretty reliable 400hp car on e85 eventually, maybe not until I upgrade the snail)

Basic engine:
MAP stage 1 shortblock, with the BSE kit, stock crank, just their basic build, with a few exceptions.

RODS-eagle, the ones that come with all stage one builds. I've been told they should have no problem handling 600hp

Good so far.

PISTONS-wiesco, and this is one spot I would like input on. The stage one build comes with the option of an 8.3:1 Manley, or a 8.5:1 wiesco. After chatting with Bob, he had suggested going with a higher compression ratio, something like a 8.8:1, 9:1, or even a 9.5:1, due to my 16g/e85 combo. He said, that I would benifit from the extra compression on the smaller turbo and on corn juice. (the planned successor to the 16g, would be a fp3052 or something similar, keep that in mind) What are your thoughts, and what compression ratio would you recommend going with?

The higher the compression, the more overall torque, and thus, power you will make, off and on boost. However, the higher the compression, the more control over the combustion chamber you will need. What are your tuning options? If it was a standalone car, I would go 9.5:1. If its running piggybacks, 8.5:1 is good.

HEAD(1g): There will be some mild port/polish work done, as well as a valve job and some cleaning of the bowls. I discussed a possible 1mm oversized
valves, but overall don't think I would benifit too much from it, so believe I will be sticking with stock valves (chime in if you have suggestions relating to valves). Springs/retainers, may see an upgrade, but then again, a 16g doesn't have the craziest top end, and won't be revving to the moon.

CAMS: The car used to have hks264's, which have been sold. I don't want to throw a ton of money at cams, so those of you using a cheaper yet effective cam, please share some insight on some possible suggestions.

I am going to lump these together, as doing one without the other is just plain stupid. Are you using a 1g head or a 2g head? The 1g heads typically flow more CFM, 2g heads typically yield more velocity on most mild port jobs. That being said, both heads benefit from mild clean up and valve un-shrouding, especially if you are going over-sized valves. Larger valve area=larger potential for airflow, both in peak and overall averages. However, over-sized valves eat into a budget quickly.
Match your head to your cam's. I've always seen good results with a mild cam. Something with normal durations @ .050" lift, without crazy high lift numbers will yield good idle and driveability. I haven't been in the scene for awhile regarding what is hot and cool in DSM land, but you need to match your cam to your expected powerband. How high are you reving? When do you want peak power? What intake/exhaust manifolds are you using? Do you plan on keeping the 16g forever? Evo 16g? Also, consider cam gears, you'll be surprised what you can gain with them coupled with tuning.



TURBO: A ported, externally gated 16g (for now). I have one, which is why I'm going that route, and as mentioned before, plan to go bigger down the road.

How long is "for now"? Why an external gate? What boost levels are you trying to run? Evo 16g? How much "bigger" do you plan on going? What are your overall power goals?

FUEL SYSTEM: This is the biggest unknown for me. I currently have a walbro 255hp, on a stock fpr. I recently aquired FIC (Bosch) 1600cc injectors (overkill, but no need to upgrade), so those will be my injectors. My question is, is there any reason to use anything more than the one 255? I've been told in the past I may need a second pump, but recently have been told otherwise. I'll be putting a AFPR on as well.

Fuel is needed for power. Understand your power levels and you will understand your fuel requirements. What are you using for tuning for 1600cc injectors? There is no reason to put excessively large injectors on a vehicle, especially if using a piggyback, it will create a tuning nightmare.


EXHAUST: Have a full 3" N1 already, and will be using a MAP recirc o2 housing, paired with a tial mvs wastegate. Plan to pick up an Fp race manifold as well.

Sounds good. Now we need to know your intake manifold choice and intercooler sizing, as well as future turbo sizes, power band requirements, vehicle requirements, to size cams/rest of setup

TUNING: DSMlink

Any input will be helpful. May have left a few things out, typing this on my iPhone, because my computer is being dumb, and couldve left some things out.

Thanks in advance!!
Dan.

DSMlink is a good system, which version? Do you have a wideband? Will you be doing any tuning or having a professional do it? I heard a quote once, somewhere, and it stuck with me. "Tuning isn't an event, its a lifelong experience" Setup's change, conditions change, and parts fatigue. Good tuners understand this and that is why they are constantly tweaking their vehicles. People that tune their car once every 4 years are probably leaving a lot on the table, unless there is some sort of auto calibration built in, or they do not change anything.

Good luck.

[Halon]

I like the HD Wiseco's, but man it is serious overkill for your setup. I don't really know about the Manley pistons but they seem affordable and may be worth looking into. ExtremePSI shows them in both 8.5 and 9.0 ratios. I personally would go with 8.5 because I feel it will only assist in making tuning simpler, and well if you want more power, just add more boost! I personally run Mahle's which are very nicely priced, are hard anodized, and are one of the lighter pistons available off the shelf for our motors. But they seem to be more prone to cold start up piston slap due to being made from a different material. And their skirts are slightly shorter so I've wondered if that would affect longevity. But I've been rocking them for nearly 5 years now I think, and they are doing fine.

Is there something wrong with the motor, because really it seems like the money spent building the bottom end could be wisely spent elsewhere since you're going to be on a 16g setup.

As for the head differences. I personally feel the 2G head is a better design. The smaller ports allow for higher velocity, and the angle the intake ports take towards the valves is less extreme. If you have a way to simply clean up the casting on the intake ports, that's about all I would do. I wouldn't mess with an extreme port job, or 1mm over valves at your levels. Once again, money could be spent wiser elsewhere.

Everyone will have their own opinions, and it's your choice in the end to decide what is best for you. Good luck with the build!!!

[jrohner]

I personally would go with 8.5 because I feel it will only assist in making tuning simpler, and well if you want more power, just add more boost!

But running a 16G means you can't really run much boost on top end; 30 at most even with all the tweaks and 'tricks'. I would go 9:1 if you want to save a little money, otherwise 10:1 custom pistons. He's going to run E85, so it can handle it fine.

I do agree on running the 2G head.

I think the BC272 cams are the perfect match for a 16G, no big loss of off-boost power, same spool as stock cams, more power and torque everywhere. They seem to make the most of the 16G, bigger cams will just trade off torque and spool for maybe a few more unnoticed hp. It doesn't pay to lose a bunch of torque with a turbo that's basically known for torque and mid range power. The torque hit is what makes the 16G so fun; I regret getting bigger cams for my car.

Save the extra expense and parts of an external gate and just get a higher pressure WGA, such as a Holset one, so you can hold a few more PSI on the top end. Ebay downpipe and exhaust, or just no exhaust at all :)

[At-Least-It's-An-Evo]

What is your REAL goal for this car? Mightas well do it all at once. With all that, mightas well just do a 6765 setup on a built bottom end w/ a stock head/mildly modded head. Call it good and just go from there. Anyone who knows me though knows I think the steps between that are meh.

[v8klla]

Wiseco makes a shelf stock piston in 9:1, and we've built many motors with standard Wiseco's without a known failure. Standard Wiseco / Eagle will be more than enough for your goals, you would be wasting money on HD's in my opinion, but what do I know ;)