TkrPerformance

[scheides]

A few points, all IMHO:
-used parts, as-is
-if the 7-bolt was in good running condition, there is zero reason to put a 6-bolt in....sounds fishy.
-you offered to pick it back up to get it inspected, basically admitting there could be a problem with it
-it's $200, not $1000 (i.e. not a huge sum of cash).

Either give mark the money back or tell him tough luck (hopefully he doesn't return the motor through your front window). Based on your FS ad though advertising it as running condition, I would recommend just returning the cash and taking the motor back. Sell it to someone else or fix it or whatever you want to do, but starting a bunch of drama over a $200 motor is pretty much at the top of my list of lame. Mark has been wrenching on these cars for years and years and I trust his word, but here's the thing--he told me about this last week before we all went out for Kracka's bday...he said about two sentances about it to me and that was it.

[niterydr]

While the engine swap for "Just cause" does sound fishy, I've seen people do more strange of things. The fact of the matter is that it is a $200 engine. That price is essentially a scrap value and if it is running it is a bonus. If the engine does run and start, it is as advertised.

Was there any sort of inspection done on the engine before it was purchased? A 1/4" of crankwalk/endplay is very noticable. Surely someone with as much experience as Mark would know to toss a prybar on the crank end pully or flywheel to check for freeplay before buying a 7 bolt. Hell, I don't understand why ANYONE would buy a used engine without getting a look at the bottom side (aka no oil pan) before purchase, especially if you know it is used and prone to issues historically.

Still $200 is not a lot of cheese, especially for a shortblock.

The best thing to do would be to have an independant part tear it down and post pictures up. Hell I've torn down and built more of these (4g63/4g64, 6g72) than I can count, if need be I can be a non charging neutral third party, but my schedule is very hectic and would probably not meet anyones timeline commitments.

[Kracka]

To add one more thing, since you brought up the Best Buy example, they would either issue a refund or refuse to issue a refund on the spot. I've never had any store ask to take the product back and inspect it first. I'm with Mark, no way in hell I'd give something back without a refund first.

As always though, I can't stress "BUYER BEWARE" enough with all the used parts changing hands.

[A//// Guy]

Was there any sort of inspection done on the engine before it was purchased? A 1/4" of crankwalk/endplay is very noticable. Surely someone with as much experience as Mark would know to toss a prybar on the crank end pully or flywheel to check for freeplay before buying a 7 bolt. Hell, I don't understand why ANYONE would buy a used engine without getting a look at the bottom side (aka no oil pan) before purchase, especially if you know it is used and prone to issues historically.

This.

If it ran for mark for even a couple days, then it was sold "running." No reason to say its false advertising on the sellers part.

[daneatsv8s]

I swapped the 6 bolt in because I had a change in plans regarding my DSMs. I had half of the parts I needed to finish my Galant the way I wanted it. The 6 bolt was freshly rebuilt, and already had a comp stage 4 clutch etc. Since I'm still in school I decided that instead of building a "fast" car that I had no purpose for, I would just make a good street set-up out of my GSX. I threw in a 16g and rather than buying a clutch that could handle the added power for a 7 bolt, I decided to put my 3,000 since rebuild 6 bolt motor in. As many people on this forum can tell you, the motor was in my daily car. I drive it day in, day out and it's been incredibly reliable for me, on top of the fact that I had done the t-belt, water pump, job less than 5,000 miles before. That is the only reason I was comfortable selling the motor as "running".

All your suggestions about taking the motor back and giving Mark the $200 make sense, which is why I told him that I was willing to do it in the FIRST place. That is the whole point of this thread. I didn't tell him to screw off or tell him he was wrong, I said I would refund him his money as soon as it was verified that the motor was bad. You all seem to know him so well, but the bottom line is I don't. I can't just take someone's word for it that the motor is "junk", crankwalked, and the bearings and crank are all shot too. In this case I am going to protect my interests and have it examined by a neutral third party. Anyone who either knows or has done business with my brother or I know how laughable it is to think that we would just take the motor and disappear. What would I do with a 7 bolt motor that I have no use or car for? That's why I sold it in the first place. I don't think that anyone who actually takes the time to OBJECTIVELY read what I wrote in the emails (rather than just skimming them and then posting at the bottom with your take on the matter) will agree that I could not have handled it in a more professional manner. The entire point of me telling Mark that I would not refund him is because there was NO response from him for 6 days, while I am well aware that he was online during that time because he posted on this forum on several occasions. Although I will add that Mark somehow thinks my brother should have come and picked up the motor, as if he had somehow RESPONDED to my email and had actually agreed to doing what I had asked, which was exactly what I was waiting for in the first place.

And Kracka, as to the Best Buy example, I would either issue a refund or refuse it on the spot IF that were applicable to this situation. If I had a customer service counter somewhere that someone could plop a 7 bolt to be examined quickly, then I would. Bringing it to Primo to be inspected is the same thing as the Best Buy associate opening the box, looking at the camera, and deciding if it's broken or not. Simple as that.

I'm not out for anyone's approval and I certainly don't need anyone to tell me that my actions are shady or that I'm a scammer.

[blageo23]

Just going to put my two cents in about swaping the motor. I had a perfectly running 7bolt motor in my car with only 80,000 on it. I had some extra money so I thought Id do the swap. I sold the motor and is probbly still running fine now (it was in swiftys ex gfs car white 1999 gsx). It a piece of mind thing. And if you are trying to make a great daily driver as he is doing then why not do all you can to keep it running for as long as you can.

[Kracka]

And Kracka, as to the Best Buy example, I would either issue a refund or refuse it on the spot IF that were applicable to this situation. If I had a customer service counter somewhere that someone could plop a 7 bolt to be examined quickly, then I would. Bringing it to Primo to be inspected is the same thing as the Best Buy associate opening the box, looking at the camera, and deciding if it's broken or not. Simple as that. I'm not out for anyone's approval and I certainly don't need anyone to tell me if I'm right or not.
There is a big difference from something being 2 feet away and completely across town away. I also highly doubt that every Best Buy customer service counter employee is a trained camera technician. Go to Mark's house (or have him come to yours) and have him show you what's wrong with the engine so you can see it for yourself. If you feel you're not knowledgeable enough, bring someone along who is. OR, just forget the whole situation and simply say "No" to a refund and let Mark make a feedback thread about you so we hear his side of the story (online, I've already heard it in-person).

[daneatsv8s]

Why are you suggesting that I go to Mark's house and see for myself? That is what I said to do in the first place, that is the ENTIRE point of this thread. I offered for my brother to come pick up the block to have it inspected by himself as well as a third party (Like I said in my emails, I AM OUT OF THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW). Mark could have just as easily responded to my email and told me that he would drop the motor off at my house or at Primo. You act as if I am afraid of truth coming out, that I'm really hesitant to look at the motor. I don't really know how I can stress more that you're trying to tell me to do something that I suggested in the first place, so I guess I can just repeat it again: You're telling me to do something that I suggested in the first place.

[Alpha D]

This.

If it ran for mark for even a couple days, then it was sold "running." No reason to say its false advertising on the sellers part.

That doesnt make much sense? So i could sell my 6 bolt "running" on 2 cylinders and not have that be misleading. I think if a survey was to be held, and people given to choices between a running engine being junk or good to go being in decent condition they would pick the second choice. Im sure people wouldn't think it was junk right of the bat. Reasoning behind is wouldn't a seller would mention any imperfections if they are ''Honest''. I Say more things in writing.

[jrohner]

Did he install it, have an issue, and then check it over, or did he look it over and find an issue before installing it? If he had it running, any number of things (mostly oil related) could have happened. Plus, crank walk is something that he could have easily checked 5 seconds BEFORE buying it.

-if the 7-bolt was in good running condition, there is zero reason to put a 6-bolt in....sounds fishy.
To me, the bigger head bolts alone are reason enough to switch to a 6-bolt. Add in the (even more important) bigger, stronger rods and rod bolts, and there you go.